ANy thoughts?
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AbqLightz |
SOULS |
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This is just a question that I have had. I have been thinking about this for a while and noone really has an answer. IS there any way to define a soul? This is a difficult one for me. I want to see everything. I try to understand a soul through sight but I am not sure if this is possible. What does others think or see? Is there anyway to? I also know that only humans have souls. We joke about our dog having a soul. Why cant a dog have a soul. Just something that I think of often but keep forgeting to ask my priest.
ANy thoughts? |
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galantarie |
God's Other Creatures | #8 | ||
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Papa says, [and St. Francis did also] that animals indeed DO have spirits. They were placed here to comfort us; and are also part of God's creation....But they do not have to worry about Purgatory, do not have "free-agency/will" and are not able to reason as man;and therefore cannot/need-not partake of the Holy Eucharist and cannot be held accountable for "sins". Their fallen state was on account of man, and his corruption...Much more we really do not know; but many great Saints believed that their favorite pets will be resurrected too. There is also a priest in Italy who permits pets to come into Church with their owners, and gives them his special blessings. Many accounts are there of animals saving, rescueing, and doing God's work among men!
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Noel25 |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #9 | ||
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As far as animals are concerned I personally feel they do have their place in heaven. I noticed that galantarie mentions references that our pets do have souls; I was not aware that anything had been mentioned. I'm glad it is :-)
Regarding people, my personal opinion, is that we see a person's soul through the essence of who they are. It's intangible as far as physically seeing the soul but I believe that we feel it's presence as an energy. I believe that each of us has a special and unique part of us that was God's gift as we came into this world. |
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Wulfruna |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #10 | ||
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I remember going to catechism class as a child and a nun saying that animals have no souls. I was a docile little thing, but I inwardly refused to believe her.
C S Lewis said that when Adam fell, the rest of creation fell also - from then on carnivorous animals preyed on other animals, etc. This is obviously a pious thought, with no obligation to believe, but I tend to believe it. Thus Jesus came to save man, but also redeemed the rest of creation. If the animals do have souls, a place in the afterlife, then what of all living things? Could it be that every living thing (plants, trees) will be resurrected - heaven will have no geographical limits - and exist just to give us joy and glory to God? Since there will be no setting of seeds, then will plants have perfume? I imagine that they will since the scent of flowers is one of the loveliest aspects of life on earth. Imagine, a place where one will see dinosaurs and neanderthals, the mammoth, the cave lion and the dodo. We are told we can't imagine the joys of heaven, but it is enjoyable to speculate. |
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galantarie |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #11 | ||
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sweet!
Yes, "Wulfruna", I also believe all of God's Creation will be resurrected. I also believe mankind will have to work out something for their abuse of animals and the environment; but Christ did redeem all....."There will be a new Heaven, and a New Earth..." Read the ending of "God and the World." Even if our bodies here in mortality are creamated, detroyed beyond our understanding of recovery, God knows every particle and how to make a whole...even from what we may deem "nothing". All this is beyond our humanly comprehension, but nothing is impossible with God...We must never loose the awe of this Great Mystery; and never believe man has the answer to all things. God is beyond our physical world. Resurrected Spiritual beings...our future destiny, will be combo of the Spiritual and the Physical; tangible, but unlike anything here which we as humans can now erfassen! Sofar Only Christ and Mary [His Mother and Our Mother] embody these things beyond Our Eternal Father. The Holy Spirit can enlighten us to these things; but as mortal men, we will never fully know of these wonders until the Final Judgement. Only God knows really all things....We can try to capture the essence of creation; but we must acknowledge that it actually is totally in God's very hands, NOT OURS! |
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semperidem |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #12 | ||
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Angels are created spirits without corporeal form.
Man is a created spirit with a corporeal form. Both of these have free will, intellect and an interior life. Animals other than humans don't have souls -- even if they have spirits. They don't reason: they act on instinct. They have no interior life. Genesis tells us that we men are given dominion over the rest of creation on Earth. [We don't have dominion over any angel]. Reasonably, "All dogs go to Heaven" is a cute movie title, but not a reality. |
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Wulfruna |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #13 | ||
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The gift of reason and the awareness of our own existence may separate mankind from the animal kingdom but I am not aware that these faculties are a prerequisite for heaven. All we can say for sure is that we are made in the image and likeness of God, and so we are 'special' to Him in a way that the animals are not - again, this is not proof that there is no place for anything in the afterlife other than humans, angels and God.
Animals are capable of feeling fear and pain, "dominion" over them should involve responsible stewardship, based on kindness and common sense. Dismissing our opinions with a cute movie title may sound clever, but equally it could be interpreted as contemptuous. |
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galantarie |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #14 | ||
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PLEASE READ "GOD & THE WORLD":
The new Pope has spoken movingly about the exploitation of all beings, particularly of farmed animals. When he was asked about the rights of animals in the Peter Seewald "God and the World" interview, he said, "That is a very serious question. At any rate, we can see that they are given into our care, that we cannot just do whatever we want with them. Animals, too, are God's creatures." Certainly, a sort of industrial use of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds, this degrading of living creatures to a commodity seems to me in fact to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible." Cardinal Ratzinger was echoing official Church teachings, as he and Cardinal Schnborn laid the teachings out, in the Catholic Catechism, which states clearly that Animals are Gods creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals. . . . It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. ![]() ![]() ![]() Compassion for animals was also a prominent theme in John Paul IIs papacy. In one of his public audiences J-P declared that animals, along with human beings, "possess a soul and...men must love and feel solidarity with our smaller brethren." He pointed out a passage in the Book of Genesis stating that God had breathed his spirit into all creation, animals as well as human beings. J-P went on to say that all animals are fruit of the creative action of the Holy Spirit and merit respect and that they are as near to God as men are. Animal lovers everywhere were overjoyed! He reminded people that all living beings, including animals, came into being because of the breath of God. Animals possess the divine spark of lifethe living quality that is the souland they are not inferior beings, as factory farmers, fur farmers, and others who exploit animals for profit would have us believe. After he became Pope John Paul II, His Holiness went to Assisi, the birthplace of St. Francis, and spoke of the saints love for animals. He declared, We, too, are called to a similar attitude. ST. FRANCIS FOUNDATION FOR ANIMALS ![]() Animal Prayer Guide ~ $12.98 USD You'll find sample prayers for saying grace over your pet's food, prayers for sick and lost pets. Daily prayers, prayers for emergencies, for traveling, special occasions, pray for all animals everywhere and animal shelters. Now you can have special blessing services for your animal companions. Anoint them with oil. This book gives sample services for Blessing of the Animals, Animal Dedications, and Memorial Services. |
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groovsmyth |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #15 | ||
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It is a far cry from treating animals with compassion and respect to saying grace over their food or annointing them with oil. Get a grip.
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galantarie |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #16 | ||
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I was just looking for a nice smile after what "semperidem"
foolishly said without knowing Jean-Paul II's inspired words (which upset "Wulfruna") ! |
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galantarie |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #17 | ||
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I just received another note privately from "Semperidem" insisting animals are inferior and have no souls.
Does he think he knows more than Pope Jean-Paul II, the Cathechism and the Magisterium? Again I repost what Pope Jean-Paul stated: In one of his public audiences J-P declared that animals, along with human beings, Quote:He pointed out a passage in the Book of Genesis stating that God had breathed his spirit into all creation, animals as well as human beings. J-P went on to say that all animals are Quote:and that they are Quote:Animal lovers everywhere were overjoyed! He reminded people that all living beings, including animals, came into being because of the "breath" of God. Animals possess the divine spark of life Quote:and they are not inferior beings, as factory farmers, fur farmers, and others who exploit animals for profit would have us believe. After he became Pope John Paul II, His Holiness went to Assisi, the birthplace of St. Francis, and spoke of the saint's love for animals. He declared, Quote: The Church's Doctrinal Thinking on Animals by Marie Hendrickx Quote: THEREFORE, THEY ARE DIFFERENT, YES; BUT NOT INFERIOR....AND THEY DO HAVE SOULS! |
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galantarie |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #18 | ||
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Apparently "semperidem" is NOT a Catholic.
He "was" once; as his sloagan is: "EX-CATHOLIC, NO HOME IN ROME" ! I think he considers himself a "TRAD" ! So he could care less what the Magisterium, the Cathechism, Popes Jean-Paul II, or Benedict XVI state. In our early Forum, circa 20-22 July 2003, he posted the two following statements.: "semperidem": "I'm afraid I don't at all accept the understanding of the Third Secret of Fatima as merely a reference to the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II." "Some of the statements coming from the Vatican beg credulity. Still others seem to be quite loaded with what Dr. Marra called linguistic time bombs -- and it occurs to me that a reasonable observer could conclude that somewhere in the Vatican is a powerful prelate ...who wishes the Holy See to speak with two voices if She ever speaks with the Catholic one." ________________________________________________ Now, at the time, it was our Cardinal Ratzinger who presented to us an explanation [so beautifully may I add] of the 3rd Fatima "secret". "Semperidem" did not accept his interpretation. And where "Semperidem" says "somewhere in the Vatican is a powerful prelate..." He is obviously referring to Ratzinger. Such tarnished biosity shows even then where his true heart lay.... Do not be fooled or listen to "Semperidem"! His is NOT Roman-Catholic Doctrine. |
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groovsmyth |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #19 | ||
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Wow, Christella, great detective work! You really "outed" Chris.
The philosophical term, soul, should not be confused with the theological term, soul. |
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Wulfruna |
Re: God's Other Creatures | #20 | ||
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I checked out the No home in Rome forum - and had to login again when I checked in here, which i never normally have to do. It took several attempts for me to get back in! How strange. Both are ezboard forums, but it seems the RFC didn't 'like' my having looked at the other one - tee hee!!
I'm not surprised. In fact, I don't think a 'trad' Catholic would feel at home there, it's for evangelicals who are former Catholics and wish to pray for the conversion of 'Romanists'. However NHIR is a vast forum and has no home page, you really have to dig to find out what they stand for. Not like here!!! All people of good will are surely welcome here, and our membership has people who are from other Christian traditions, but they are open about it, which earns our respect. I think that if someone is not coming clean (especially if they actually despise the Pope and the Catholic church) then what are they trying to hide? The door is always open. p098.ezboard.com/bxcatholic (but not for the faint hearted) |
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