Love - Mary x
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Marybenedict |
THE LITURGY, a discussion. |
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Member
Posts: 745 11/28/05 12:35:21 |
Is anyone interested in starting a thread on the Liturgy? It's something in which I am very interested and involved in my parish. It's also always been close to our Papa's heart from the time when he was a small boy.
Love - Mary x |
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Marybenedict |
Re: THE LITURGY, a discussion. | #1 | ||
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Posts: 745 11/28/05 15:07:48 |
I would welcome people's comments on:
Bidding Prayers, alias General Intercessions, alias Prayers of the Faithful. Which title is most suitable, for a start? I always use Prayers of the Faithful. Mary x |
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GWSXXV |
Re: THE LITURGY, a discussion. | #2 | ||
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I was looking for a place to post this, and this thread seems ideal:
www.cwnews.com/offthereco...ecnum=3252 The writer makes some good points. He certainly seems to be generating some feedback. GEORGE's JUNGLE 24-HOUR INTERNET RADIO FROM CALGARY
streaming at 64 kbps available in mp3PRO audio website: www.georgesjungle.v29.net |
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Imladris |
Re: THE LITURGY, a discussion. | #3 | ||
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For anyone interested and wasn't yet aware of this site, The New Liturgical Movement is a good one covering all aspects of the liturgy, music and art and discussions about the "reform of the reform". It's been online only a few months but it has a strong roster of contributors.
Link: www.thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/ That's all I have to add to the discussion, for now. Thanks, Marybenedict for opening up the subject, which has been on the minds of most Catholics for a long time. I know it's on my mind every Sunday when I'm listening to the lackluster music at my parish! ~Imladris~
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GWSXXV |
Re: THE LITURGY, a discussion. | #4 | ||
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Here's my vote for "quote of the year" so far:
Quote: It comes from this 2003 article on the post-Vatican II liturgical changes: www.seattlecatholic.com/a...30915.html I should note that the article comes from a Traditionalist website. However, the more I read about this subject, the more I realise there really was a lot of odd stuff going on in the '60s. If I had been an active Catholic during those days, and saw something like the liturgical "reforms" of V-II taking place right before my eyes, I wonder if I would have reacted any differently than the Traditionalists did. It's something to think about. George GEORGE's JUNGLE 24-HOUR INTERNET RADIO FROM CALGARY
streaming at 64 kbps available in mp3PRO audio website: www.georgesjungle.v29.net |
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galantarie |
Trad reaction during the late 60's | #5 | ||
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Have any of you seen the Brian Moore Play "Conflict" ?
It was made into a movie "Catholics" in 1973 with Martin Sheen and Trevor Howard, through Glazier Productions. It lasts for 97 minutes. I owned the VHS for years...as Brian Moore ["Black Robe" and "The Statement"] was always one of my favorite Catholic writers. Then about a year ago or so, Chinese DVD copies were made available to retail stores like Shoprite, where I picked-up the DVD for $3.00 American.... Then even spookier, Walmart's a few months later were selling bootleg copies in thin-packs for under $1.00 American! But that does not distract from the impact of the story, based upon a secluded Abbey on an Irish aisle. It is a must see if you have not already. It answers our George's reaction to what really occured in the faithful...and how deeply they were hurt....And how their faith was indeed tested. ________________________________________________ "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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galantarie |
from Zenit interview | #6 | ||
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Q: Shouldn't the Church's desire to speak to the modern world be reflected in the liturgy?
Father Robinson: The answer is "no" if you mean that the liturgy is supposed to adapt to what we are told are the aspirations of modernity and the promptings of postmodernity. The Church is supposed to bring something to the world, not accommodate its message to what it thinks Tom, Dick or Harry will swallow. Pope Benedict XVI gives us a lesson in what I mean in his first encyclical, "Deus Caritas Est." The document is a vibrant affirmation of the uniqueness of the Christian teaching about love, and this uniqueness is based on God's self-disclosure of himself -- what we call revelation. The liturgy must return to reflecting this God-centered approach. "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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galantarie |
Neo-Catechumens: 2 Years or Ex-communication! | #7 | ||
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Pope Benedict Instructs the Neo-Catechumens
(16 Feb 06 - RV) Pope Benedict XVI has given the Neo-Catechumenal Way 2 years to bring its liturgical practices into conformity with the Churchs approved liturgical books. Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Cardinal Francis Arinze, explains neo-Catechumens "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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galantarie |
This book is a must! | #8 | ||
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Monsigneur Klaus Gamber : "The Reform of the Roman Liturgy", Its problems and background
[French Edition w/ a Forward by Joseph Kardinal Ratzinger] English 24 April 1993- RC Books $19.95 # ISBN: 0912141050 This was the book that inspired Joseph Ratzinger to publish "The Spirit of the Liturgy". In his preface to the French edition, Cardinal Ratzinger called Gamber a "model" liturgist; and notes that the late Msgr. was "an outcast" for his views. The forced use of a new liturgy, lectionary and calendar planned and published without much respect for the tradition of about 1600 years of natural development of the liturgy; the turning of the altar without any real historical or scientific support etc. "I would say that, in a peculiar manner, the Priest has become too important...Those in Mass attendance, must always be looking at him. Realisticly, he is not that important." Ratzinger said this exaggeration of importance given the rle of the Priest plays straight into the hands of the Feminist movement who feel thus a need for women-priestesses! Ratzinger said the late German Priest and Liturgist's arguments make historical sense and are persuasive. Joseph Kardinal Ratzinger was 66 years old at the time of writing the 27 line Preface. He was interviewed in the Italian weekly "Il Sabato", which published his comments on 24 April 1983, and also by "The Religious News Service". ![]() Monsignor Gamber's book is a necessity for all those who want to have adequate information about the liturgical tradition of the Catholic Church and for those who say there is nothing strange in the way the liturgy - especially the Holy Mass - is celebrated today. "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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mag6nideum |
Re: This book is a must! | #9 | ||
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Interesting galantarie. After getting to know the Catholic Mass I somehow cannot stomach the all-importance of the Protestant minister, high above the heads of the congregation, preaching and sometimes "performing" from the chancel. Everything revolves around him. If he cannot "preach" and "deliver" well, the service is declared a flop, especially since Communion only takes place 4 or 5 times per year....
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Marybenedict |
Now here's a question! | #10 | ||
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Member
Posts: 745 03/26/06 01:00:56 |
Here's a question for you all:
What do you think about a parish where there are no Prayers of the Faithful during the week, yet there has to be a server, who is usually a woman [not me,I hasten to add]? Do you think the server is essential and the prayers are not? Answers please.....................!!!! Pax et Bonum! Mary x "Living in fear of God frees the heart from all fear and immerses it in the depths of His love" Benedict XVI
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GWSXXV |
Re: Now here's a question! | #11 | ||
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I remember from my Novus Ordo days that there was usually no prayers of the faithful during daily Mass, unless it was a feast day or something like that. (In the Traditional liturgy, we don't have prayers of the faithful ever.) In your case, I would say including them during daily Mass would depends how important the prayers are to the parish community.
Having at least one server is important, although I don't know whether it is an absolute necessity in the N.O. I am not partial to allowing female servers in the first place, but if the priest allows it then I suppose that is the final word. I don't see any reason why the priest couldn't allow prayers during weekly Mass. Tell him you'll write the prayers if he finds a man to be the server! George GEORGE's JUNGLE 24-HOUR INTERNET RADIO FROM CALGARY
streaming at 64 kbps available in mp3PRO audio website: www.georgesjungle.v29.net |
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galantarie |
Arinze on Reverence for Mass and Liturgy | #12 | ||
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"Be reverent at Mass, Vatican official tells Catholics" By Simon Caldwell 4/6/2006 Catholic News Service LONDON The head of the Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments urged Catholics to be reverent during Mass and to venerate the Eucharist properly. During a talk in Westminster Cathedral April 1, Nigerian Cardinal Francis Arinze called on priests to restore tabernacles to central positions in churches and for Catholics to rediscover the tradition of reverent genuflection in the presence of the Eucharist. He also called for an end to adding details to and subtracting them from the approved rites of the Mass and for an end to soft background music during Mass and other times when people were trying to pray in church. "This is doubtless well intentioned, but it is a mistake," said the cardinal. "People enter churches to pray, not to be entertained." The cardinal told about 400 audience members that Mass was the "supreme act of adoration, praise and thanksgiving which humanity can offer God." "Man is not the center of reality. God is. By adoring God through the holy Eucharist, we pay this due tribute to God's transcendence," he said. "Those who refuse to adore God must not decorate themselves with the apparently nice title of liberal intellectuals." The cardinal said that a person who refused to give God the adoration he truly deserved was like a child who refused to respect his parents, and as a result harmed his or her own best interests. "Would it be wrong to call him stupid?" asked the cardinal. He said Christians must not allow themselves to be "misled by the errors" of a secular mentality "which lives as if God did not exist." He said attention had to be paid to the roles of every Mass participant, especially the priest, who must act "in such a way that his faith and devotion shine out." Cardinal Arinze said the October Synod of Bishops stressed that the tabernacle should be the "center of our attention and prayer." But, he said, some "misguided" people still relegated tabernacles to obscure corners of their churches, where it sometimes was difficult for visitors to locate. "A do-it-yourself mentality, an attitude of 'nobody will tell me what to do,' or a defiant sting of 'if you do not like my Mass you can go to another parish' is not only against sound theology and ecclesiology, but also offends against common sense," he said. "Unfortunately, sometimes common sense is not very common, when we see a priest ignoring liturgical rules and installing creativity -- in his case idiosyncrasy -- as the guide to the celebration of the Mass." The talk, titled "The Eucharistic Mystery Calls for Our Response," was the key event of an afternoon dedicated to "thinking about and celebrating" the church's liturgy. Three English prelates -- Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor of Westminster, Archbishop Kevin McDonald of Southwark and Bishop Thomas McMahon of Brentwood and Auxiliary Bishop Mark Coleridge of Melbourne, Australia, were among those who attended. ____________________________________________ "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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