Joseph Ratzinger had a prolific output of homilies and speeches and gave several interviews before he became Pope Benedict XVI. This thread is intended to provide easy access to them and to related articles, and also to provide a forum for discussion.
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Joseph Ratzinger Speaks - Homilies, Speeches, Interviews
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 Benodette |
Joseph Ratzinger Speaks - Homilies, Speeches, Interviews |
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Posts: 6214 01/06/06 23:14:39 |
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Benodette |
Re: Joseph Ratzinger on Beethoven, Bach and Handel | #1 | ||
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Posts: 6214 01/06/06 23:27:26 |
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger gave this short address on Friday 17th October 2003, introducing a concert given by the Mitteldeutscher Rundfunk Orchestra to mark the 25th anniversary of the pontificate of John Paul II. The piece to be performed was Beethovens Ninth Symphony.
25th Anniversary of the Pontificate of John Paul II: Concert Offered by the Mitteldeutscher Rundfunk Orchestra Friday, 17th October 2003 Most Holy Father, These days, as we commemorate the 25 years during which you have borne in the Church the burden and the grace of the pastoral office of the Successor of Peter, are marked first and foremost by sentiments of gratitude and joy. A highlight of this week of festivities is the concert with which the choir and orchestra of the "Mitteldeutscher Rundfunk" are now about to regale us. They will let us hear one of the great musical masterpieces, Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, that echoes the inner strife of the great maestro in the midst of the darkness of life, his passage, as it were, through dark nights in which none of the promised stars seemed any longer to shine in the heavens. But in the end, the clouds lift. The great drama of human existence that unfolds in the music is transformed into a hymn of joy for which Beethoven borrowed the words of Schiller, whose true greatness blossomed only through his music. Since I am German, I am particularly pleased by the fact that the concert is offered by a German ensemble that is performing for the third time before you, Holy Father, and celebrating joy for us through this music. The choir and orchestra come from a part of Germany which, after the war and until the collapse of the [Berlin] Wall, experienced the wounds inflicted by the Communist dictatorship that are still being felt today. Perhaps the deepest wound is the fact that God seems to have become distant and in many hearts faith has been extinguished. But this is also the German region that gave us perhaps the greatest musical genius of all time, Johann Sebastian Bach. In the same year and in the same region Georg Friedrich Hndel was also born. To him we are indebted for another incomparable hymn of joy: the great Alleluia, which is the crowning moment of his Messiah. In it he set to music promise and fulfilment, the prophecy of the Redeemer who was to come and the historical events of the life of Jesus to which it corresponds. The Alleluia is the song of praise of the redeemed who, through Christ's Resurrection, can still rejoice, even amid the sufferings of this world. This great musical tradition - as we will experience in these hours - has lived on through all the vicissitudes of history, and is a ray of light in which the star of faith, the presence of Jesus Christ, continues to shine. Compared with the intact presence of the faith that transpires in Hndel's Hymn to joy and which emerges in a very different way, that is, as a tranquil inner peace and the grace of reconciliation, in Bach's Christmas Oratorio or at the end of his Passions, the illuminating Ode by Schiller, so impressively set to music by Beethoven, is characterized by the humanism of that time, which places man at the centre and - where there is a reference to God - prefers the language of myth. Nevertheless, we should not forget that Beethoven is also the composer of the Missa Solemnis. The good Father, of which the Ode speaks, is not so much a supposition, as Schiller's text might suggest, but rather, an ultimate certainty. Beethoven also knew that we can entrust ourselves to the Father because in the Son he made himself close to us. And thus, we can calmly see the divine spark, of whose joy the Ode speaks, as that spark of God which is communicated to us through the music and reassures us: yes, the good Father truly exists and is not utterly remote, far beyond the firmament, but thanks to the Son is here in our midst. I greet with gratitude and joy those distinguished persons who have made this concert possible, and with you, the conductor of the ensemble, Mr Howard Arman, the soloists as well as the choir and orchestra. We thank you because you have given us this spark of God filled with joy, which God enables to be kindled in you and in us. This article offers some interesting comments on music in the Church and refers to Benedicts views on the subject. www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/GE17Aa01.html Here are some excerpts: For the new pope, sacred music does not merely put the communicant in the right mood. Music, he believes, in a sense, becomes the communion, as he told Church musicians 20 years ago: "Faith becoming music is part of the process of the word becoming flesh When the word becomes music, there is involved on the one hand perceptible illustration, incarnation or taking on flesh, attraction of pre-rational powers, a drawing upon the hidden resonance of creation, a discovery of the song which lies at the basis of all things. And so this becoming music is itself the very turning point in the movement: it involves not only the word becoming flesh, but simultaneously the flesh becoming spirit." [1] Once there were great musicians who composed the music Benedict requires, but the Church spurned them. In 1820 Beethoven finished Missa Solemnis as an exemplar of what he called "true Church music", doubtless the best Catholic composition of the 19th century. His biographer, Anton Schindler, describes Beethoven writing the fugue of the Credo, ... singing, yelling, stamping his feet ... The door opened and Beethoven stood before us, his features distorted to the point of inspiring terror. He looked as though he had just engaged in a life and death struggle with the whole army of contrapuntists, his everlasting enemies. The "contrapuntists" in this case were the composers sanctioned by Church authorities, who discouraged its performance in churches until after Vatican II. Along with Beethoven's spurned offering upon the altar the Church suppressed the orchestral masses of Mozart, Franz Joseph Haydn, and Franz Peter Schubert. As a result, the 19th century gave us Gioacchino Rossini's Stabat Mater, Giuseppe Verdi's Manzoni Requiem (perhaps the least sacred of all settings off the liturgy), Gabriel Faure's Requiem, a few pieces by Anton Bruckner - a poverty of Church music compared to the inexpressible riches of the century before. For art to serve the good, the artist must first be good. Benedict XVI, as noted, stated that "reverence, receptivity and humility" characterize the musician whose art exalts rather than confuses the listener. Religion can engage art as its servant only after it has converted the artist. |
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galantarie |
Music thread already exists! | #2 | ||
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Posts: 4652 01/07/06 10:35:23 Member |
We have a specified music thread already, of which the above would have made a great addition:
p072.ezboard.com/ftheratzingerforumfrm21.showMessage?topicID=2.topic If "Benodette" you would not mind, I would like to move your posting to it...Please, and Thank You! "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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Benodette |
Re: Music thread already exists! | #3 | ||
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Posts: 6214 01/07/06 12:43:37 |
Galantarie - Of course you may also put this on the music thread. However, it is here because it is an address given by Joseph Ratzinger. It just happens that I started with one which had music as the theme. There may be others which could also find more than one home on the forum.
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Benodette |
Re: Joseph Ratzinger on Beauty, Truth and Love | #4 | ||
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Posts: 6214 01/07/06 12:53:33 |
This beautiful, often-quoted, address on "The Feeling of Things, the Contemplation of Beauty" was sent to a meeting of Communion and Liberation at Rimini in August 2002.
Here are some excerpts: Every year, in the Liturgy of the Hours for the Season of Lent, I am struck anew by a paradox in Vespers for Monday of the Second Week of the Psalter. Here, side by side, are two antiphons, one for the Season of Lent, the other for Holy Week. Both introduce Psalm 44 [45], but they present strikingly contradictory interpretations. The Psalm describes the wedding of the King, his beauty, his virtues, his mission, and then becomes an exaltation of his bride. In the Season of Lent, Psalm 44 is framed by the same antiphon used for the rest of the year. The third verse of the Psalm says: "You are the fairest of the children of men and grace is poured upon your lips". Naturally, the Church reads this psalm as a poetic-prophetic representation of Christ's spousal relationship with his Church. She recognizes Christ as the fairest of men, the grace poured upon his lips points to the inner beauty of his words, the glory of his proclamation. So it is not merely the external beauty of the Redeemer's appearance that is glorified: rather, the beauty of Truth appears in him, the beauty of God himself who draws us to himself and, at the same time captures us with the wound of Love, the holy passion (eros), that enables us to go forth together, with and in the Church his Bride, to meet the Love who calls us. On Monday of Holy Week, however, the Church changes the antiphon and invites us to interpret the Psalm in the light of Is 53,2: "He had neither beauty, no majesty, nothing to attract our eyes, no grace to make us delight in him". How can we reconcile this? The appearance of the "fairest of the children of men" is so wretched that no one desires to look at him. Whoever believes in God, in the God who manifested himself, precisely in the altered appearance of Christ crucified as love "to the end" (Jn 13,1), knows that beauty is truth and truth beauty; but in the suffering Christ he also learns that the beauty of truth also embraces offence, pain, and even the dark mystery of death, and that this can only be found in accepting suffering, not in ignoring it. Being struck and overcome by the beauty of Christ is a more real, more profound knowledge than mere rational deduction. Of course we must not underrate the importance of theological reflection, of exact and precise theological thought; it remains absolutely necessary. But to move from here to disdain or to reject the impact produced by the response of the heart in the encounter with beauty as a true form of knowledge would impoverish us and dry up our faith and our theology. We must rediscover this form of knowledge; it is a pressing need of our time. The encounter with the beautiful can become the wound of the arrow that strikes the heart and in this way opens our eyes, so that later, from this experience, we take the criteria for judgement and can correctly evaluate the arguments. For me an unforgettable experience was the Bach concert that Leonard Bernstein conducted in Munich after the sudden death of Karl Richter. I was sitting next to the Lutheran Bishop Hanselmann. When the last note of one of the great Thomas-Kantor-Cantatas triumphantly faded away, we looked at each other spontaneously and right then we said: "Anyone who has heard this, knows that the faith is true". The music had such an extraordinary force of reality that we realized, no longer by deduction, but by the impact on our hearts, that it could not have originated from nothingness, but could only have come to be through the power of the Truth that became real in the composer's inspiration. Is there anyone who does not know Dostoyevsky's often quoted sentence: "The Beautiful will save us"? However, people usually forget that Dostoyevsky is referring here to the redeeming Beauty of Christ. We must learn to see Him. If we know Him, not only in words, but if we are struck by the arrow of his paradoxical beauty, then we will truly know him, and know him not only because we have heard others speak about him. Then we will have found the beauty of Truth, of the Truth that redeems. Nothing can bring us into close contact with the beauty of Christ himself other than the world of beauty created by faith and light that shines out from the faces of the saints, through whom his own light becomes visible. The complete text is here: www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/601/Contemplation_of_Beauty_Cardinal_Joseph_Ratzinger.html |
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galantarie |
Re: Joseph Ratzinger on Beauty, Truth and Love | #5 | ||
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Posts: 4652 01/07/06 13:05:56 Member |
That one is also mentioned on the Music thread.[see above]
Papa reiterated what he mentioned about the Bach/Richter concert again in his newer book: "On the Way to Jesus Christ" [Herder/Crossroads]! "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Joseph Ratzinger on Beethoven, Bach and Handel | #6 | ||
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Posts: 1549 01/08/06 06:27:13 |
Cardinal Ratzinger's comments about Beethoven interests me.
He points out subtly that the famous "Ode to Joy" on Schiller-text) in the ninth symphony is less "Christian" (perhaps more humanistic) in character. He then reminds the audience that the same Beethoven also wrote the great [Christian] Missa Solemnis. Then the link in this same post by Benodette refers us to an article by another person who suggests that the Church ignored Beethoven's Missa Solemnis (and other masses from the Classical period in music history). The result, according to him, was a poverty if composed masses in the 19th century with only a few less fine/exalted masses from i.a. Verdi and Faure. I would like to make a few remarks re: the above: [1] Beethoven's Missa Solemnis was probably not at all "spurned" by the Church, as the second writer claims. Vocally it was and still is the most difficult piece of choral writing to come from the pen of any pre-modern composer. What Beethoven asks from his choir sopranos (and even the basses) in the fugues of the Gloria, and especially the Credo, is almost outrageous in terms of the continuous very high vocal range. (He expects much in the ninth symphony as well, but the Gredo is pure hell to sing, especially for amateurs). Therefore the reception history of the Missa Solemnis was extremely sluggish and slow. The Missa Solemnis took a long time become part of the general concert repertoire. It still is a major project to get it performed. How easily can such a mass be sung and played during the liturgy???!! [2] Beethoven was born Catholic. But according to Roger Fiske in his book Beethoven's Missa solemnis, chapter 3, "Beethoven as a Christian", there is "little doubt that in his twenties and thirties Beethoven turned against the Christian faith as the sole guardian of truth, and that in his forties he rather hesitantly returned to it in a form modified to suit himself. The return may well have owed much to the friendship with the Archduke Rudolph, who must have been obsessed with ecclesiastical ambition at least by 1816". [Archduke Rudolph was Beethoven's patron and was later appointed cardinal by Rome.] Fiske later continues: "A Christian of sorts, but not a conventional one; it is unlikely that in his later years Beethoven ever went to church." [My question here: he was stone deaf by then. Would he have gone to church if he couldn't hear anything?] "It is also unlikely that he ever believed in all the details of Catolic doctrine. Schubert when setting the mass would leave out phrases of the Credo which he could not stomach. Writing for an Archbishop Beethoven could hardly have done the same but it may be significant that [...] he went out of his way to make certain phrases in his own Credo inaudible." Beethoven was interested in what today would be termed "comparitive religion". He read translations of Persian and Egyptian spiritual literature etc. Also the Greek philosophers, as can be expected. On his work desk, framed in glass, he kept three aphorisms, which, according to the German poet Schiller, had been found under an ancient monument of Isis and upon a pyramid at Sais: " I am that which is." "I am everything that is, that was,and that will be; no mortal man has raised my veil." "He is of himself alone, and it is to this aloneness that all things owe their being." Fiske states: "The views of critics on how far, if at all, Beethoven's beliefs affected the Missa Solemnis have been very varied". So,there is uncertainty about his real beliefs. If anyone on the forum knows about more recent research on this subject, please let us know. The Fiske-book used here as source was published in 1979. |
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galantarie |
Re: Beethoven via Fiske | #7 | ||
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Posts: 4652 01/08/06 10:36:58 Member |
 This Fiske book is interesting; as it is the first time it has been brought to my attention that Ludwig vanBeethoven was not a devout Catholic! And I have lots on and about van Beethoven.... I was informed he was very strict on his upbringing of his nephew; and even an early 1936 Albert Game film of his life only emphasized his Catholicity! A newer film biography by Hans Conrad Fischer discussed extensively vanBeethoven's religious beliefs as studied by Hans-Schmidt, available in the Bonn Archive. In all matters he tried to remain "pure" although greatly depressed at times over his hearing and "passion" struggles; and was reportedly celibate* his entire life....It has been said that personal piety he wasn't so concerned about, as he cared about others' eternal souls!*1 VanBeethoven has been shown to be overtly concerned with the abberations of belief by his fellow men, amongst them Christian Frchtegott Gellert [professor of poetry and rhetoric at Leipzig], whose "six Songs" vanBeethoven made his Opus 48. Many of Gellert's poems ended up in Protestant Church Services. But the songs vanBeethoven picked of his, particularly "The Heavens Praise the Honor of the Lord", expressed van Beethoven's religious viewpoint; and only thus so-aesthetically structured, can one appreciate their [the song's] highlighted pathos! (*If vanBeethoven was a secret follower of the fertlity godess Isis, would he have been so? He was not a consumer of wines either! And would not there have been some other evidences...aside from Fiske?) The popular "Ode of Joy" from his 9th Symphony is happily sung in all Catholic Churches to this day in two versions. He is burried on consecrated land, in the Central Friedhof of Vienna's municipal cemetary [moved there less than 100 years ago], although his tombstone is pyramid shaped.  It lies right beside Schubert! [It was Schubert's wish to be burried beside vanBeethoven.]  VanBeethoven was only 56 upon his death; Franz Peter Schubert was 31! Directly-below is a popular cigar-box label depicting Franz Peter Schubert:  _______________________________________________ *1: The "unknown" East German editor of vanBeethoven's complete songs wrote: "Even the song 'Der Wachtelschlag' WoO129, picks up the theme of God, though not in the sense of any personal confession. Instead the song is concerned with instructing people who are believers in the childish sense...." --------------- P.S.: [curious] What faith is/was Fiske? Could there be a touch of anti-Catholicism on his part which coloured his analysis of vanBeethoven to conform with what he (Fiske) really believed, imposing it onto his idolization of vanBeethoven? And what specific part of the Holy Creed disturbed Schubert?  portrait of Ludwig vanBeethoven  "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Beethoven via Fiske | #8 | ||
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Posts: 1549 01/08/06 17:16:00 |
Galantarie, thank you for a prompt reaction. I hoped you would have more info. Since I posted the Fiske-stuff, I've started on an anthology of Beethoven's* letters and some of his journal musings (*Van Beethoven, as you rightly say!)
Thus far, it seems that he certainly writes about "God", or "the Creator". He doesn't seem to refer to "Jesus" or "Christ" -- but I haven't finished yet with these letters. And somewhere I've read that he was certainly a "deist", not at all atheist. He couldn't have composed a masterpiece such as Missa Solemnis without belief in God. The aphorisms at his desk certainly do not point to belief in Isis!! Perhaps it highlighted for him the mystery of God? [He did drink wine, by the way. That's clear from at least two letters that I've read thus far. But he had no drinking problem like his father.] Well, it will be interesting to do some more research on the topic of the specifically Christian aspect of Van Beethoven's framework of belief. I don't have the vaguest idea which parts of the Credo Schubert glossed over/left out. I'm not familiar with Schubert Masses. I don't know what this Fiske's religious affiliation is/was. He is definitely British. I didn't get the idea that he was anti-Catholic, though. He was with the BBC from 1939-1959, was in charge of Eulenburg miniature scores, wrote also Beethoven's Concerto's and Overturesand "numerous educational books on music". Very interesting Schubert picture on the cigar box. He looks quite different than the usual illustrations of him! Interesting that you say many Gellert texts "ended up" in Protestant church services. I've never came upon one. But I have a musicologist friend with a doctorate on the Beethoven Lieder. He is also something of a himnologist. This could be stimulating news for him. |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Beethoven via Fiske | #9 | ||
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Posts: 1549 01/08/06 17:59:37 |
Galantarie: Forgive this second consecutive posting, but I forgot to refer to your statement that the "Ode of Joy" (Ninth Symphony) is sung "happily" in two versions in Catholic churches. I would like to know more about the texts being used in these two versions, please. Are they translations of the Schiller text?
If you read Papa's comment on the "Ode to Joy" again (in Benodette's post), you'll see that he himself states that it is indicative of the humanism of Schiller's time, where man is put in the centre and reference to God has a mythical character. Papa then proceeds to point out that Van Beethoven ALSO gave us the Missa Solemnis (which, by its very nature, is a setting of purely Christian texts - implying that in the Mass the triune God is in the centre). That is the very distinction he wanted to draw between the "Ode to Joy" and the Mass. Therefore, what is the content of the texts that Catholics use when singing happily two versions of this (basically) humanistic original "Ode to Joy" ? I'm ignorant in this respect, being brought up in a Calvinistic branch of Protestantism...and as you know, dear Calvin initially really allowed only Psalm settings to be sung.... |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Beethoven via Fiske | #10 | ||
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Posts: 1549 01/08/06 18:06:29 |
Last consecutive posting!! I made some gruesome grammar mistakes in the previous postings... ohhhhhhh... sorry folks... didn't preview before I posted, and I'm not English speaking.
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galantarie |
Das Leben ist gttlich! | #11 | ||
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Posts: 4652 01/08/06 19:09:45 Member |
This really does not belong on this thread*; but:
There have been many religious anachorisms.... For example: Ralph Vaughan-Williams, who composed some of the greatest Christian music, and called himself an atheist! But, many people believe that he [as well as Elgar], through Elizabeth Wood, was a secret Catholic....secret because of the affiliation of his hymns being incorporated within the Church of England. The other thing: are you familiar with vanBeethoven's "Christ on the Mount of Olives", written when he was about 23 years old? Well known also, was his early enthusiasm for Napoleon; but that ended when he discovered Napoleon's conscript of the Roman-Catholic Church...to the point of "kidnapping" the Pope...and then taking it upon himself to consecrate himself emperor (when the Pope hesitated a second to crown him)! Now, the other point. I am familiar with the sacred music of Schubert! No where can I find any editing of the Credo in any of his vast output in this field. [I own the Wolfgang Sawallisch complete edition.] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- vanBeethoven believed "that God was both righteous and approachable"! Now about the "Ode of Joy": Our Papa described the "Ninth Symphony": as "a revelation of the composers inner strife in the midst of the darkness of his life, his passage through the dark nights in which none of the promised stars seemed any longer to shine in the Heavens. But in the end the great drama of human existence that unfolds in the music is transformed into a hymn of joy." On this same theme of the "dark night of the soul", Mary Craig wrote [upon reviewing the "A & E" special on the life of vanBeethoven]: " In one instance he was shown running, running, running, as hard and as fast as he could from the abuse and oppression and enemies of his soul that so characterized his experience. When he could run no more, he fell down, eyes closed. But when he opened his eyes and looked up, he saw the heavens and the stars. At this dramatic moment, the music broke into 'Ode to Joy.' Just as this finale to his Ninth Symphony broke the bounds of conventional music by stemming tumult with its eloquence and insistence on decision, Beethoven also passed into a "new song," a song whose simple stately flow swells into a mighty flood....As suddenly as the music broke into joy, so also its message broke within me. Here was Beethoven, crying out from the depths of despair and oppression, the victim of injustice and cruelty, breaking into joy. I saw two options. One, that at the breaking point we can self-destruct and crumble under the weight of circumstance; or two, that we can come to the end of ourselves, fall flat on our backs, look up, and break into joy. Beethovens "Ode to Joy" would call us to the latter. How are the bonds of wickedness broken? How are the abuses of evil overcome? How do we transition from one age to another? How do we rise up and reign in the conquest of victory over the terrors and horrors of life? We humble ourselves before the Almighty, look up to the source of our redemption, and break into joy."* It is in our missaletes and "Adoremus Hymnals". We usually sing it at the Recessional of Masses and special occasions. It is said vanBeethoven based it on the medaevil Church-plainsong "Crux fidelis". One translation is "joyful, joyful we adore thee" [Henry vanDyke]; the other is "Sing with all the Sons of Glory". Another version we sing is "Sing we a Song of Gladness/ Hearts and hands and voices ringing". In some hymnal translations, it is "Help of Christians, Guard Our Nation". When Pope Jean-Paul II visited St.Louis, within a solemn high Vespers Mass on Wednesday evening 27th January 1999 at the Cathedral Basilica of Saint Louis, [a Romanesque-Byzantine style church that has been called one of the most beautiful in North America], he and the Cardinali with him, went forth in Processional to the "Hymn of Joy" [a non-Schiller translation*], organized by "Adoremus". It is also the official hymn of the European Union, adopted 19th January 1972 ! The adoption of the finale's "Ode to Joy" of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony as Europe's anthem points in the same direction. Building on many unsolicited, private suggestions, dating back to 1949, the Council of Europe made its first official plea for an official European anthem in June 1971. (A well known publicist for European unity in the interwar period, Count Coudenhove-Kalergie, in 1949 had been one of the first to suggest the Ode to Joy as a possible anthem. Between 1952 and 1964, East and West Germany used the Ode as their joint victory hymn at the Olympic Games. Over time, overcoming a number of potential rivals, the Ode gradually established itself as the most widely accepted European hymn, especially in local communities. The 1971 resolution recommended the tune of the Ode, without the words, as Europe's anthem. Herbert von Karajan was commissioned to make the musical arrangements and provided them in 1972 for orchestra and brass.) In 1823 when vanBeethoven composed the "Missa Solemnis", I have been told he was "in full communion with the Church". And, Liturgicly, yes, the Holy Solemn Roman-Catholic Mass [also known as the "Latin-rite Mass"] is totally Christ centered. It is the presiding priest, acting as Christ, reafirming (each time celebrated) the Great Sacrifice (and the parishoners co-celebrating Christ's Last Supper combined) wherein we partake of Christ's body and blood; and He intermingles within us (as His One Church). Therein, not only are our baptismal vows reknewed, but we are for a period, Christ's One Body! That is why we must be purged of all sin prior to our reception of the eucharistic-host and blood. Certainly that is the Holy Mass; wheras "The Ode of Joy" is merely a shout of exuberance on the profundity of mankind*. "A & E" has a special on vanBeehoven: At its end, revealing what occured on the 22nd of March 1827, vanBeethoven receives the last rites by the Roman Catholic Church. During a ferocious storm, Beethoven is shown raising his fist and collapses. His last recorded words were, "I shall hear in Heaven. Clap now, my friends, the comedy is done." Also, I have been very familiar with Our Papa's views, inborn (soul-hearted) love, and understanding of classical music. His views totally parallel my own. We think alike. (As one would say, we are "kindred spirits".) Have you read over our Music thread? *Can we help Out the Holy Office... Some musical discussions can also be found on the World Youth Day thread; and the Music, Art, & Literature forum. SEE ALSO: Beethoven By Richard Wagner 1870 Translated by William Ashton Ellis _____________________________________________ * On the "Ode of Joy", Mary Craig writes: "The gospel calls us to radical changein outlook, in issues of the heart, in the dimensions of life lived before God and man. For me, 'Ode to Joy' is a call to move in metamorphosis from caterpillar to butterfly, to submit to Jesus Christ making me a new creation, with the old passing away and all things becoming new. (2 Corinthians 5.17) It is a call to live in a new perspective, in a new freedom, in a new glory, in a new song. It is a call to die to the old and rise. It is a call to find dominion over death, devils, and disease. It is a call to break into joy." -------------------------------------------------------------------- * Even vanBeethoven did not keep to the "Pagan" Schiller original: "Ode to Joy" (Translation of Schiller's original German 1785 Version): Joy, beautiful spark of Gods, Daughter of Elysium, We enter, fire-drunk, Heavenly, thy sanctuary. Thy magic powers re-unite What custom's sword has divided Beggars become Princes' brothers Where thy gentle wing abides. Chorus Be embraced, millions! This kiss to the entire world! Brothers - above the starry canopy A loving father must dwell. Whoever has had the great fortune To be a friend's friend, Whoever has won the love of a devoted wife, Add his to our jubilation! Indeed, whoever can call even one soul His own on this earth! And whoever was never able to must leave Tearfully away from this circle. Chorus Those who dwell in the great circle, Pay homage to love! It leads to the stars, Where the Unknown reigns. Joy all creatures drink At nature's bosoms; All, Just and Unjust, Follow her rose-petalled path. Kisses she gave us, and Wine, A friend, proven in death, Pleasure was given even to the worm, And the Cherub stands before God. Chorus You bow down, millions? Did you sense the Creator, o world? Seek him above the starry canopy. Above the stars He must dwell. Joy is called the strong motivation In eternal nature. Joy, joy moves the wheels In the universal time machine. Flowers it calls forth from seeds, Suns from the Firmament, Spheres it moves far out into Space, Where our telescopes cannot reach. Chorus Joyful, as His suns are flying, Across the Firmament's splendid design, Run, brothers, run your race, Joyful, as a hero going to conquest. As truth's fiery reflection It smiles at the seeker. To virtue's steep hill It leads the sufferer on. Atop faith's lofty summit One sees its flags unfurl, Through the cracks of burst-open coffins, One sees it stand in the angels' chorus. Chorus Endure courageously, millions! Endure for the better world! Above the starry canopy A great God will reward you. Gods one cannot ever repay, It is beautiful, though, to be like them. Sorrow and Poverty, come forth And rejoice with the Joyful ones. Anger and revenge be forgotten, Our deadly enemy be forgiven, Not one tear shall he shed anymore, Nor feeling of remorse shall pain him. Chorus The account of our misdeeds be destroyed! Reconciled the entire world! Brothers, above the starry canopy Judge God as we are judged. Joy is bubbling in the cups, Through the grapes' golden blood Cannibals drink gentleness, The despair of heroic brothers -- Flies away from your seats, When the full rummer is going around, Let the foam gush up to heaven: This glass to the good spirit. Chorus He whom star clusters adore, He whom the Seraphs' hymn praises, This glass to him, the good spirit, Above the starry canopy! Resolve and courage in great suffering, Help where innocence weeps, Eternity to sworn Oaths, Truth towards friend and enemy, Men's pride before Kings' thrones-- Brothers, in good and in blood, Crowns to those of merit, Defeat to the liars bred! Chorus Close the holy circle tighter, Swear by this golden wine: To remain true to the Oath, Swear it by the judge above the stars! Delivery from tyrants' chains, Generosity towards the villain, Hope on the deathbeds, Mercy from the final judge! Also the dead shall live! Brothers, drink and chime in, All sinners shall be forgiven, And hell shall be no more. Chorus A serene hour of farewell! Sweet rest in the shroud! Brothers -- a mild sentence From the mouth of the final judge of the dead! _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Das Leben ist gttlich! | #12 | ||
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Posts: 1549 01/09/06 16:01:35 |
Thank you Galantarie for the trouble and time you spent on giving info and answering questions. Yes, I've been reading all the threads you've mentioned since April - as a "lurker".
If I [perhaps] come back to this Beethoven-topic, I'll be posting on a music-thread. The "Wagner on Beethoven" has been saved and will be studied. |
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galantarie |
Re: Das Leben ist gttlich! | #13 | ||
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Posts: 4652 01/10/06 18:30:02 Member |
I am more than ever inclined to believe that Roger Fiske is definitely biased against Roman-Catholicism.
I here quote from "Mag6nidium" above: "[2] Beethoven was born Catholic. But according to Roger Fiske in his book Beethoven's Missa solemnis, chapter 3, "Beethoven as a Christian", there is "little doubt that in his twenties and thirties Beethoven turned against the Christian faith as the sole guardian of truth, and that in his forties he rather hesitantly returned to it in a form modified to suit himself. The return may well have owed much to the friendship with the Archduke Rudolph, who must have been obsessed with ecclesiastical ambition* at least by 1816". (Archduke Rudolph was Beethoven's patron and was later appointed cardinal by Rome.) Fiske later continues: "A Christian of sorts, but not a conventional one; it is unlikely that in his later years Beethoven ever went to church." "It is also unlikely that he ever believed in all the details of Catholic doctrine. Schubert when setting the mass would leave out phrases of the Credo which he could not stomach. Writing for an Archbishop Beethoven could hardly have done the same but it may be significant that ... he went out of his way to make certain phrases in his own Credo inaudible." My answer: *The Holy Priesthood is not a profession of Ecclesiastical-ambitions. A Roman-Cardinal is a special part of the Roman Vatican Curia.... It takes hard work and recognition by God to advance within its hierarchy. Is this any indication of how some English fundamentalists/Calvinists perceive of Rome and Our Holy Father: www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonID=7200583356 I already gave my answers to the other nonsenses about Schubert and the simple declaration of the Credo. I also have shown that vanBeethoven was given absolution in the Holy Sacrament of the Last Rites....And I do believe he is in Heaven, with no Sins whatsoever on his immortal-soul! "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Das Leben ist gttlich! | #14 | ||
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Posts: 1549 01/11/06 14:41:33 |
Galantarie- [1] let's try and find out about Fiske's religious background.
[2] I went to the sermon-link you've given but when I saw the sermon on the Papacy as anti-Christ I became too angry. Won't waste time listening to such a subjective exegeses. I was under the impression the Pope as Anti-Christ -idea went out of fashion a few centuries ago.... |
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Benodette |
Cardinal Ratzinger on Cardinal Newman | #15 | ||
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Posts: 6214 01/21/06 12:03:51 |
Joseph Ratzinger gave this address at the Newman Symposium in Rome, on April 28, 1990. He speaks of his own introduction to Newman as a seminarian in 1946, immediately after Word War II. He shares his own insights on Newman and his teaching on conscience and on the development of doctrine.
Extracts: In January 1946, when I began my study of theology in the Seminary in Freising which had finally reopened after the confusion of the war, an older student was assigned as prefect to our group, who had begun to work on a dissertation on Newman's theology of conscience even before the beginning of the war. In all the years of his military service he had not lost sight of this theme, which he now turned to with new enthusiasm and energy. Soon we were bonded by a personal friendship, wholly centred on the great problems of philosophy and theology. Of course Newman was always present. Alfred Lapple the above mentioned prefect named published his dissertation in 1952 with the title: Der Einzelne in der Kirche (The Individual in the Church). For us at that time, Newman's teaching on conscience became an important foundation for theological personalism, which was drawing us all in its sway. Our image of the human being as well as our image of the Church was permeated by this point of departure. We had experienced the claim of a totalitarian party, which understood itself as the fulfillment of history and which negated the conscience of the individual. One of its leaders had said: "I have no conscience. My conscience is Adolf Hitler."1 The appalling devastation of humanity that followed was before our eyes. So it was liberating and essential for us to know that the "we" of the Church does not rest on a cancellation of conscience, but that, exactly the opposite, it can only develop from conscience. Precisely because Newman interpreted the existence of the human being from conscience, that is, from the relationship between God and the soul, was it clear that this personalism is not individualism, and that being bound by conscience does not mean being free to make random choices the exact opposite is the case. .... When I continued my studies in Munich in 1947, I found a well read and enthusiastic follower of Newman in the Fundamental Theologian, Gottlieb Sohngen, who was my true teacher in theology. He opened up the Grammar of Assent to us and in doing so, the special manner and form of certainty in religious knowledge. Even deeper for me was the contribution which Heinrich Fries published in connection with the Jubilee of Chalcedon. Here I found access to Newman's teaching on the development of doctrine, which I regard along with his doctrine on conscience as his decisive contribution to the renewal of theology.6 With this he had placed the key in our hand to build historical thought into theology, or much more, he taught us to think historically in theology and so to recognize the identity of faith in all developments... Throughout his entire life, Newman was a person converting, a person being transformed, and thus he always remained and became ever more himself. Here the figure of St. Augustine comes to my mind, with whom Newman was so associated. When Augustine was converted in the garden at Cassiciacum he understood conversion according to the system of the revered master Plotin and the Neo-Platonic philosophers. He thought that his past sinful life would now be definitively cast off; from now on the convert would be someone wholly new and different and his further journey would be a steady climb to the ever purer heights of closeness to God.... Augustine's actual experience was a different one. He had to learn that being a Christian is always a difficult journey with all its heights and depths. The image of ascensus is exchanged for that of iter whose tiring weight is lightened and borne up by moments of light, which we may receive now and then. Conversion is the iter the roadway of a whole lifetime. And faith is always "development," and precisely in this manner it is the maturation of the soul to truth, to God, who is more intimate to us than we are to ourselves. In the idea of "development" Newman had written his own experience of a never finished conversion and interpreted for us, not only the way of Christian doctrine, but that of the Christian life. The characteristic of the great doctor of the Church, it seems to me, is that he teaches not only through his thought and speech, but also by his life, because within him thought and life are interpenetrated and defined. If this is so, then Newman belongs to the great teachers of the Church, because he both touches our hearts and enlightens our thinking. www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=6614 |
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galantarie |
Our Pope and Saint Augustine | #16 | ||
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Posts: 4652 01/21/06 13:21:06 Member |
The Augustinian-Prior General has written to Pope Benedict XVI to congratulate him on behalf of the Order of Saint Augustine, and to pledge the order's allegiance and support to his pontificate.
There are numerous associations in the life of the new Pope with Saint Augustine. His doctoral thesis at the University of Munich in Germany was centred on a topic from Saint Augustine. There in 1953 he received a doctorate in theology under Professor Gottlieb Sohngen (1892-1971) by completing a dissertation on "The People of God and the House of God in Augustine's Teaching about the Church." About Augustine, the Pope wrote, " Saint Augustine was in dialogue with Roman ideology, especially after the occupation of Rome by the Goths in 410, and so it was very fascinating for me to see how in these different dialogues and cultures he defines the essence of the Christian religion. He saw Christian faith, not in continuity with earlier religions, but rather in continuity with philosophy as a victory of reason over superstition. So, to understand the original idea of Augustine and many other Fathers about the position of Christianity in this period of the history of the world was very interesting and, if God gives me time, I hope to develop this idea further." In a letter to all members of the Order on 26 th April 2005, Father Robert Prevost O.S.A., the Augustinian Prior General, referred to the new pope's love of Saint Augustine. When the new Pope was first made a bishop but did not yet have a diocese to administer, he was appointed the titular bishop of the Augustinian Church of Sant' Aurea at Ostia Antica. (This place is just outside of Rome, where Monica, the mother of Augustine died. This church site is possibly where Monica's remains were kept before being transferred to Rome in the year 1430.) In recent years while a Curial official in Rome, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger visited the Augustinianum - the church's official centre for the study of the early Fathers of the Church, which is conducted by the Augustinians. The Pope has also quoted Saint Augustine in his sermons. His recognition of Augustine is evident in his new papal coat of arms. A third of its shield is taken up by a shell, with primary significance to a legend about Augustine. The legend, which comes to us from the Middle Ages in a variety of versions, is that Augustine was walking along the seashore, meditating about the unfathomable mystery of the Holy Trinity. There he met a boy who was using a shell to pour sea water into a hole he had made in the sand. When asked what he was doing, the boy explained, "I am emptying the sea into this hole." Augustine said that the task was impossible, to which the boy replied that for Augustine to explain the Blessed Trinity was equally impossible. Thus the shell on the Pope's coat of arms is a symbol for plunging into the unfathomable sea of the Blessed Trinity.   There is also a Book with all the homilies and speeches Our Papa made when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, on John Henry Newman: "Benedict XVI and Cardinal Newman", edited by Peter Jennings, press secretary to Archbishop Vincent Nichols of Birmingham, England. (Somewhere earlier on this forum we discussed this book.)  (source : Picture by Colin Mason, Family Publications, Oxford) Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, Archbishop Vincent Nichols, and Peter Jennings, pictured at the launch of "Benedict XV1 And Cardinal Newman", edited by Peter. Taken under the portrait of Cardinal Newman in the Cardinals' Corridor at the Venerable English College in Rome, on 17 October. WILL IT BE BENEDICT XVI, the first Pope of the twenty-first century, who will canonize John Henry Newman the best-known English churchman of the nineteenth century and declare him a Doctor of the Church? Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, was first introduced to the work of Cardinal Newman as a young seminarian, and has taken a keen interest in him ever since. The introductory addresses given by Cardinal Ratzinger at the Academic Symposium, John Henry Newman, Lover of Truth, organised by the International Centre of Newman Friends, are included in this book, together with his important address about Conscience and Truth, presented at the 10th Workshop for Bishops, in Dallas, Texas. The book also contains an in-depth chronology of Newmans life and a number of little known and unpublished pictures, including a previously undiscovered picture of Dr Newman, founder of the English Oratory of St Philip Neri, from the archives of the Birmingham Oratory. The editor, Peter Jennings, has skilfully assembled important contributions from a number of leading churchmen including specially written essays by Cardinal Cormac Murphy-OConnor, Archbishop of Westminster, Archbishop Vincent Nichols of Birmingham, and Fr Paul Chavasse, Provost of the Birmingham Oratory. The thought-provoking sermons given during the Newman Centenary celebrations in Birmingham during 1990 are published together here for the first time. The book concludes with the election of Benedict XVI, his first message and blessing, his homily to the Cardinals in the Sistine Chapel the following day, as well as the homily at his Inaugural Mass in St Peters Square. This is an engaging and valuable resource, in large (A4) format, extensively illustrated in full colour, that will appeal to both Newman scholars and devotees alike, at a vital time in the history of the Cause for Cardinal Newman being declared a saint of the Church.  "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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