I'm debating with a (non-declared) Feeneyite on baptism of blood, and need some help. Let me tell you the main guidelines of the debate:
He quotes in his defense of "extra acquam nulla salus":
John 3,5
Council of Florence: The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
Council of Vienne: "All the faithful must confess one Baptism, which regenerates in Christ all the baptized, just as there is one God and one faith. We believe that this Sacrament, celebrated in water, is commonly the perfect remedy for
salvation for children and adults alike."
Trent Session 14, Chapter II: "no one who has not first entered the Church through the gateway of Baptism does the Church exercise judgment upon...It is otherwise with those of the household of Faith, whom Christ the Lord has once made members of his own Body by the laver of baptism."
Trent Session 7, Canon II on Baptism: "If anyone saith that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema. If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ: 'Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirt' (Jn 3:5): let him be anathema.
Quotes from saints (even Augustine and Cyprian, who wrote about baptism of blood) won't help, quotes from Catechisms (even the St. Pius X Catechism, which accepts baptism of blood and desire) won't work, theologians like Ludwig Ott (same remark applies) won't work, because none of them are infallible, and a council is. That's what he says. (of course, if you can help me with this issue as well...)
When someone mentioned St. Emerentiana, his answer was "evidence is not there either way---that is, if she was definitely baptized before her martyrdom or not. I state that she, of course, would have been, otherwise she would not be a saint, and that God's providence would have insured that in her waning hours she would have had recourse to water for that very purpose." - regardless of what says the Golden Legend: "Among them that buried her body was one Emerentiana which had been fellow to Saint Agnes, how be it she was not yet christened, but an holy virgin, she came also to the sepulchre of Saint Agnes, which constantly reproved the gentiles, and of them she was stoned to death and slain."
As you see, a hard task for someone whose theological knowledge isn't big. I could simply let him write (it's the message boards of a Catholic singles website) and forget the issue, but I'm already into it, so I can't walk away anymore.
All the best from Brazil
Marcio
He quotes in his defense of "extra acquam nulla salus":
John 3,5
Council of Florence: The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
Council of Vienne: "All the faithful must confess one Baptism, which regenerates in Christ all the baptized, just as there is one God and one faith. We believe that this Sacrament, celebrated in water, is commonly the perfect remedy for
salvation for children and adults alike."
Trent Session 14, Chapter II: "no one who has not first entered the Church through the gateway of Baptism does the Church exercise judgment upon...It is otherwise with those of the household of Faith, whom Christ the Lord has once made members of his own Body by the laver of baptism."
Trent Session 7, Canon II on Baptism: "If anyone saith that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema. If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ: 'Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirt' (Jn 3:5): let him be anathema.
Quotes from saints (even Augustine and Cyprian, who wrote about baptism of blood) won't help, quotes from Catechisms (even the St. Pius X Catechism, which accepts baptism of blood and desire) won't work, theologians like Ludwig Ott (same remark applies) won't work, because none of them are infallible, and a council is. That's what he says. (of course, if you can help me with this issue as well...)
When someone mentioned St. Emerentiana, his answer was "evidence is not there either way---that is, if she was definitely baptized before her martyrdom or not. I state that she, of course, would have been, otherwise she would not be a saint, and that God's providence would have insured that in her waning hours she would have had recourse to water for that very purpose." - regardless of what says the Golden Legend: "Among them that buried her body was one Emerentiana which had been fellow to Saint Agnes, how be it she was not yet christened, but an holy virgin, she came also to the sepulchre of Saint Agnes, which constantly reproved the gentiles, and of them she was stoned to death and slain."
As you see, a hard task for someone whose theological knowledge isn't big. I could simply let him write (it's the message boards of a Catholic singles website) and forget the issue, but I'm already into it, so I can't walk away anymore.
All the best from Brazil
Marcio
