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Designated Doctrinal Enforcer
Oct 25 05 1:10 PM
Quote:"...The second Vatican Council has not been treated as a part of the entire living Tradition of the Church, but as an end of Tradition, a new start from zero.The truth is that this particular Council defined no dogma at all,and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level,as a merely pastoral Council; and yet many treat it as though it had made itself into a sort of superdogma which takes away the importance of all the rest...."
Jan 1 06 9:39 PM
Nov 1 06 5:55 AM
May 24 08 1:55 AM
OK, so one Pope says don't change it, another Pope changes it. Fine.
But that only answers one of many arguments saying the Novus Ordo is not a valid Mass.
The other argument Traditional Catholics (is there any other kind?) use is the one explained in this web site:
It says all sacraments have matter and form, and the form in this one (Holy Eucharist) is the words of consecration.
Now the words of consecration are very important because it is by these words that the sacrament is either valid or invalid (which is important because there
is no transubstantiation if it's invalid).
The Church teaches that both the matter and form of any Sacrament must signify what the Sacrament effects.
So, the words have to state what is actually happening - like in the first part "This is My Body".
And in the second part: 'For this is the Chalice of My Blood of the New and Everlasting Testament; the Mystery of Faith, which shall be shed for you and
for many unto the remission of sins.'
They changed it to "for all" - it's not so much that it WAS changed - but that the words "for all" don't signify what the
sacrament effects, and therefore, says they, it's not valid. And the Council of Trent specifically explains why it must be "for many" and not
"for all" - because not "all" sinners would receive the benefit of the shedding of His blood:
"With great propriety, therefore, were the words, 'for all,' not used, because here (in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist) the fruit of the
Passion is alone spoken of, and to the elect only did His Passion bring the fruit of salvation."
So, that's why some people think the Novus Ordo is not valid.
I'm surprised, after reading 4 pages of this, that nobody has mentioned this essential issue regarding the validity of the N.O. Mass.
Oct 14 10 10:49 PM
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