Hugs~Nan
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Welcome to The Pope Benedict XVI Forum
The Pope Benedict XVI Fan Club invites your participation in our open, yet civil and (hopefully) respectful discussion of topics by and about Pope Benedict XVI and general issues in Catholic faith & theology. Members, please acquaint yourself with our FORUM RULES -- failure to abide by the rules will result in warnings from the moderator and possible expulsion by the management.
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NanMn |
Re: Whaaaa ???? | #21 | ||
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Unicorn, unlike you and the rest of the members of this forum (myself included) and God knows how many other people who choose to walk in the true light and see the divine, these people who write such lies are walking around in their own light because they can't bare the truth.
Hugs~Nan |
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Wulfruna |
With enemies like these..... | #22 | ||
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we just have to be right!!!
Seriously, when you look at the horrible things that come from the critics, you wonder if they have understood the faith at all. First 'The Prophet' writes snide and unpleasant jibes against a loyal fan of Ratzinger, totally lacking in charity, and intent on making some 'point' that could be made much more effectively with good manners, and then websites such as the one Christella linked to - how could anyone who believed in the gospels write such unholy stuff? One of the difficulties with the internet is that it is so easy for unstable people to peddle their obsessions or stir up conflict on forums for the sake of it. People who used to write anonymous letters in green ink now have websites that can be read by other cranks. A lot of the dissent (uber-trad and liberal/heterodox) among our saner brethren in the church is caused by pride (and yes, I am aware of the plank in my own eye). "By their fruits ye shall know them" - I've quoted this before, but it's a good yardstick. |
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galantarie |
Re: With enemies like these..... | #23 | ||
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here is another one by this Hoffmann fellow, more recent against Our Papa:
Benedict in the German Synagogue If this gentleman didn't have a strong following, I would agree with you totally "Wulfruna".....but he is more than a solo on the fringes. He is part of a very large movement! eeek...imagine thousands of people thinking this way, and twisting the minds of other innocent souls to their beliefs???These are the followers of "Bishop" Williamson, who refuse any dialogue with Our Papa and the Vatican! These are some more of the mad literature they are spreading.... These two are also particularly against Our Papa: ![]() their description: "An official Vatican document on the Jews makes a complete change in traditional Church teaching." "THE BIBLICAL COMMISSION ON THE JEWS: CHANGES IN DOCTRINE & NEW ANATHEMAS" "A. S. Guimares analyzes the most recent Pontifical Biblical Commission (PBC) document on this topic with a preface by Cardinal Ratzinger. This shocking document proposes that a future Jewish messiah would be accepted by Catholics, that Catholic should learn how to read the Scriptures from the Jews, and more. Guimares clearly shows that the PBC and Cardinal Ratzinger adopted a false method of interpretation of Holy Scriptures, a method condemned by prior Popes and Councils as Protestant, Liberal, Modernist and Progressivist. This work has been sent to all the Bishops of the country. To date, no argument has denied its clear and objective analysis." And in this one, they never say how Our Papa refuted the idealogies of Karl Rahner, saying how wrong he was. Instead they say that Our Papa is implementing Rahner's Progressive ideals! ![]() "The powerful influence of Karl Rahner's flawed theology in Vatican II and the post-Conciliar Church." "A Critical Examination of THE THEOLOGY of KARL RAHNER, S.J." by Robert C. McCarthy Their review: "The German theologian, Karl Rahner, skillfully undermined Catholic theology for years before Vatican Council II. Rahner not only invented a new theology, he invented a new language to describe it! It became, in effect, a "coded" language, understandable only to initiates. This book in many points helps to break the code and lays bare the true meaning of Rahner's bizarre theories, showing how they permeated Vatican II and its aftermath. The thinking of Karl Rahner is especially important today, because he was the mentor of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, today Benedict XVI. Don't miss this one!" ![]() ![]() "AN URGENT PLEA: Do Not Change the Papacy" Their description: The same four authors of We Resist You to the Face - Atila Sinke Guimares, Michael J. Matt, John Vennari, and Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D. (see this book below) - analyze the desire of John Paul II to change the Petrine Primacy in order to make it acceptable to Schismatics and Protestants. In an open letter to the Roman Pontiff they beg him to not change the Papacy. They also suggest opening a dialogue to discuss this crucial topic. Many pictures illustrate and heighten the message. "The authors analyze the plan of John Paul II to change the Petrine Primacy in order to make it acceptable to Schismatics and Protestants. They object to the proposed measures and alleged motives for a change. Confronting the Pope, they ask him not to change the Papacy. It is, without a doubt, a bold request, which startles those who show more consideration for authority than for the Faith." "The document is cogent and concise. The authors understand how to argue the case, how to present questions, and how to expose the reality - even in very delicate situations. At the same time, the work is praiseworthy for the notable historical panorama it unfolds." ![]() "RESISTANCE vs. SEDE-VACANTISM" "The Statement We Resist You to the Face (April 2000) received an outpouring of support from around the world, and also a barrage of accusations from both progressivists and sede-vacantists who are trying to place the authors outside the visible Church. To clarify this complex issue, Michael J. Matt (one of the authors) interviews Atila Sinke Guimares (the principal author) about the main criticisms received. Those who are distressed by the statements and actions of the present Pope should read this booklet to see why sede-vacantism is not a viable option." ![]() Their description: "NEW! An important analysis on support of JPII for Marxism" "CURIOUS AFFINITIES BETWEEN THE THINKING OF JOHN PAUL II & MARXISM" "Sycophants of John Paul II normally spread that he is a champion against Communism and Marxism. A. S. Guimares shows the opposite is true. He analyzes the concepts of property, work, and Capitalism in the encyclicals of John Paul II, and shows how they assist Marxism and conflict with the past teaching of the Church. Read these well-supported arguments demonstrating that John Paul II, as well as his two precedessors, support Marxism by way of the ideas and the facts. An essential study for anyone who wants to understand the present day position of the Church on social and economic issues." ![]() Their review: "WORLD YOUTH DAY: FROM CATHOLICISM TO COUNTERCHURCH Authors Cornelia Ferreira and John Vennari show how: * World Youth Day and other programs corrupt youth and lead them into a Counterchurch; * Parishes, RCIA and new "ecclesial movements do the same for other Catholics; * The Counterchurch is community-oriented, democratic, devoted to "social justice" and interfaith unity. Includes little known facts about John Paul II's startling background; eyewitness accounts of World Youth Day; A study of the Sillon; the true nature of Focolare, how to recognize and resist the Counterchurch. Ten pages of World Youth Day photos, 248 pages" Now this is their symbol: ![]() and beware of their twisted literature circulating as "Catholic"....mind you, they do NOT say:" HOLY ROMAN-CATHOLIC" ! May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world!
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Tanfenas |
Re: With enemies like these..... | #24 | ||
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This charges are ridiculous!
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letmel |
Re: Whaaaa ???? | #25 | ||
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Our Lord knows and HE IS in CONTROL . Praise The Lord ! Viva Il Papa ! |
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galantarie |
Expos | #26 | ||
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Apparently these guys are onto me exposing them.
In my Post Office [physical mail] I received their newspaper of hate-mail. Probably because I wrote that time to Gabriel Garnica!!! Called "The Remnant", it is full of HATE LITERATURE! Wherever he is referenced to, they call him "The Anti-Pope Benedict XVI" !!!! And I cannot believe that "The Latin Mass" magazine teamed up with them, as they are claiming now!!!! Maybe "Latin-Mass" magazine is not aware of their great MISTAKE!!!! if they really are ? All of you who are subscibers of the beautiful "Latin Mass" magazine, please write to them in protest. We know "Latin Mass" magazine loves Our Papa; because they have made special issues on him alone, and have written beautiful things concerning him. They MUST NOT affilliate themselves with this group of ULTRA-TRADS and support their ugly newspaper "The Remnant". The following is the E-Mail address for "The Latin Mass": jwblewett@msn.com May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world!
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galantarie |
Re: Expos | #27 | ||
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I have just myself written to "Latin Mass" magazine:
The following is an exact transcript of what I sent to them: Dear Howard Walsh and the Publishers of "The Latin Mass": I am a faithful subscriber to "The Latin Mass" and have purchased many articles from "Keep the Faith". I have been deeply shocked to find that you joined-up with the hate-oriented group circulating "The Remnant". Our Papa, formerly Joseph Ratzinger, is the true Vicar of Christ on this Earth. "Latin Mass" has always in past circumstances spoken very well of Our Papa! Do you know what you have done going with this hate group? They are not just "Trads", which is O.K. BUT ARE SEVERE EXTREMISTS AND FOLLOWERS OF BISHOP WILLIAMSON, WHO DENY ANY CONTACT WITH OUR PAPA, and all things post 1966. Whereas all other followers of Lefevbre are now working in dialogue to reembrace the Holy Roman Catholic Faith as One with Our Papa, these others ["The Remnant" as they are now calling themselves] are looking forward to the downfall of Rome. They also have a very wierd apocalyptic outlooks for the future. Besides they are RACIST, biggots, and terribly mentally disturbed. They have written horrible things about Ingrid Stampa, besides Our Papa. As a faithful member of the "Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI FanClub", I urge you, in God's Holy Name, to please read all the things we know about this Schrechliche Organization, and PLEASE withdraw your support of them. See: p217.ezboard.com/ftheratz...ID=7.topic p217.ezboard.com/ftheratz...1&stop=100 With all my heart, I am asking you not to ignore this matter; and to please support Our dear Papa, Pope Benedict XVI, who is devoted to cleaning up the present mess of the Liturgy, [as you probably already know from all his Inspired books, letters and messages; and now as Our Papa in the General Audiences, Angelus and the new "Appendium to the Cathechism of the Catholic Faith"] as well. Remember also, that it was Our Papa, who was responsible for Our new "Cathechism of the Catholic Church", and that he has on numerous occasions celebrated the Tridentine Mass, and he IS part of the Magisterium of the Holy Roman-Catholic Church. And Christ himself stated that he would not forsake Her. Our Papa has urged all Catholics to memorize many sections of the Novus Ordo in Latin, and is making sure that the Consecration of the Host is done Facing East, etc. SUPPORT "PETER"....and love Our Holy Father indeed! Very truly yours: Christella Bernardene Krebs May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world!
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NanMn |
Re: Expos | #28 | ||
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Please see my latest post on the pics thread... URGENT
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GWSXXV |
Re: Expos | #29 | ||
Quote: Yes, unfortunately this is a huge problem today. The "internet age" seems well suited for individuals with precisely these kinds of neuroses. What these kinds of people seem to be trying to do is to create "reasonable doubt" in the minds of people who simply don't know any better. They must live in some kind of nightmare world. Wouldn't want to go there myself, not even for a visit. GEORGE's JUNGLE 24-HOUR INTERNET RADIO FROM CALGARY
streaming at 64 kbps available in mp3PRO audio website: www.georgesjungle.v29.net |
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galantarie |
Re: Expos | #30 | ||
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Apparently there is a large Italian group putting out the same ugly mess, on the opposite end of the spectrum in Italy ! according to our Italian sister, "Sihayabxvi247"....
We have to be concerned! www.anticlericale.net and www.radicali.it May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world!
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blostopher |
On discussing 'radtrads' - a word of caution and advice | #31 | ||
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With respect to "radical traditionalists", the SSPX and the like, as one who has dealt with hateful emails from "radtrads" in the past since the founding of this website, I've learned several things:
1) They are full of hatred of the Holy Father (in this Galanterie is correct, although I do not think we should be posting charges that they wish to murder the pope). 2) They are prone to conspiracy theories themselves. In the fevered imaginations of the worst of them, you will hear all kinds of talk, that Vatican II was a "Zionist-Masonic" conspiracy to infiltrate the Church and the like. There is also a strong presence of anti-semitism among them (Richard Williamson of the SPPX is a chief example, with his rants against the Jews and denials of the Holocaust). 3) THEY CRAVE PUBLICITY. Let me repeat that: THEY CRAVE PUBLICITY. There is nothing radtrads would like better than to be discussed at length on a forum -- any forum -- that advertises their existence. Insofar as we've devoted this thread to the worst of them, we're contributing to that wish. While I have occasionally given some mention to them myself (for example on the Holy Father's recent meeting with Msgr. Fellay of the SSPX here), I would strongly caution the repeated posting of links to their websites, the posting of hate-literature, etc. The reason for this is that the way the internet works, the more links to your website, the higher your ranking in search engines like Google and Yahoo, inevitably leading to more traffic. This is why you'll see the presence of spammers latching on to forums and blog's comment boxes, posting links to their websites. For this reason, it would be my preference that we direct this discussion to more productive topics, even perhaps modifying earlier posts and removing these links altogether. - Christopher [Ratzingerfanclub Admin] |
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harroldian |
Re: On discussing 'radtrads' - a word of caution and advice | #32 | ||
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The above shows that traditionalists & liberals are both intolerant and persue their own agenda. Rahner is a great catholic theologian. The Pope is rather "Anglican" in that he steers a middle way between the two extremes( the Anglican church today is split between evangelicals and liberals and it has lost the great patristic scholarly tradition).
We should not use the terms "Latin Mass" or "Traditinal mass" of the Tridentine rite. The traditional rite of England is the Sarum rite. Rather than revive old rites, it is more important to see the new rite celebrated well and in Latin where appropriate. I feel we should ignore the extreme trads. Who cares what they think? |
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galantarie |
Re: On discussing 'radtrads' - a word of caution and advice | #33 | ||
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But why did "Latin Mass" magazine give their endorsement to "The Remnant"? This is a blow for us who love the magazine which always supported Papa in all their issues; and is really a lovely quarterly.
May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world!
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galantarie |
Our sunday Visitor | #34 | ||
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Here is an excellent story on Papa:
early life of Ratzinger and: Ratzinger and the Nazis May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world!
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harroldian |
Re: Our sunday Visitor | #35 | ||
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Galentarie, I realy think you should not give publicity to the so-called ultra-trads. For a start, the tridentine rite is not traditional. If you want an old mass, go for the Eastern ritev masses allowed to the Uniates. B XVI has not attacked Rahner as Rahner has many good insights.
The ultra-trads are a tiny faction who, like the extreme liberals, should be ignored. |
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galantarie |
Our Papa could NEVER be a Nazi | #36 | ||
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WHY JOSEPH RATZINGER ALWAYS DESPISED NAZISM, POLITICS AND NATIONAL RELIGION
Kln was not Ratzinger's first encounter with people of Judaic heritage. The world, media, and the Press forget too quickly. His whole life has been one of exemplifying and proclaiming the true meaning of Love, with an heart-felt empathy with all of mankind. In an address following the screening of the film "Karol un uomo diventato Papa" (Karol, A Man Who Became Pope) on the 20th of May 2005, Pope Benedict XVI commented how the first half of the film "highlighted what happened in Poland under Nazi occupation," and he referred to the "repression of the Polish people and the genocide of the Jews. These were atrocious crimes which demonstrate all the evil contained in Nazi ideology. Shaken by so much pain and so much violence, the young Karol decided to transform his own life, responding to the divine call to the priesthood." Benedict XVI indicated that the film contained scenes that, "in their crudity, give rise to an instinctive feeling of horror in viewers, bringing them to reflect on the depths of iniquity that can be hidden in the human soul. At the same time, evoking such aberrations cannot but give rise in all right-thinking people to a commitment to do all they can to ensure that such acts of inhuman barbarity are never repeated again." "May 8, 1945 marked the end of that immense tragedy that sowed destruction and death in Europe and the world at a level never known before. ... Every time a totalitarian ideology crushes man underfoot, all humanity is seriously threatened. "Memories must not pale with the passing of time," said the Pope, "rather they should remain as a strict lesson for our own and future generations. We have the duty to remind ourselves and others, especially the young, what forms of unprecedented violence can be reached by scorn for human beings and violation of their rights." How, Benedict asked, can we not see "a providential divine plan in the fact that on the Chair of Peter a Polish Pope was succeeded by a citizen of Germany, where the Nazi regime affirmed itself with particular virulence, before attacking its neighbors, in particular Poland? Both these Popes in their youth - though on different sides and in different situations - were forced to experience the barbarism of the Second World War and the senseless violence of man against man, of peoples against peoples." The Pope stressed how "nothing can improve in the world, if evil is not overcome; and evil can be overcome only through forgiveness. May the shared and sincere condemnation of Nazism and of atheist Communism serve as a commitment for everyone in building reconciliation and peace on the basis of forgiveness." From Papa's short, but mind-opening book: "Called to Communion" we read: "Peter is cast into a rle parallel to Abraham" as the rock for his ecclesia. Here lies a function of duality. "It was not by flesh and blood, but by revelation of the Father that he had confessed Christ in the name of the 12."..."Subsequently" he is also the stumbling block (skandalon) for Jesus [Matt.16:22/23]"Left to his own resources the one who by God's grace is permitted to be the bedrock is a stone on the path that makes the foot stumble." "Peter received a promise for the time-transcendent gathering of the new people--a gathering that stretches beyond his own lifetime"...:"the rock will not be overcome because God does not abandon his eclesia to the powers of destruction."... Concerning "the power of the keys"..."helps us to comprehend the content of this commission logion. As the faithful steward of Jesus' messsage, Peter opens the door to the kingom of Heaven, his is the function of doorkeeper who has to judge concerning admission and rejection"..."the keys clearly approximates the meaning of binding and loosing"...."it stands primarily for the authority to make doctrinal decisions and...a further discipinary power. That is the right to impose or to lift the ban. The parallelism 'on earth and in heaven' implies that Peter's decisions for the Church also have validity before God"..."the power to bind and the power to loose means the authority to FORGIVE sins, an authority that in Peter is commited to the Church." "...the new commission, which robs the forces of destruction of their power, is the grace of forgiveness. It constitutes the Church. The Church is founded upon forgiveness. Peter himself is the personal embodiment of this truth, for he is permitted to be the bearer of the keys after having stumbled, confessed and received the grace of pardon; and it is thus that chaos is banished from within her. She is held together by forgiveness, and Peter is the PERPETUAL living reminder of this reality: She is not a communion of the perfect but a communion of sinners who need and seek forgiveness. Behind the talk of authority, God's power appears as mercy and thus as the foundation stone of the Church..." "The Church can come into being only where man finds his way to the truth about himself; and the truth is that he needs grace. Wherever pride closes him to this insight, man cannot find the way to Jesus. The Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven are the words of FORGIVENESS, which man cannot speak of himself but are granted by God's power alone".... by His death Jesus has rolled the stone over the mouth of death, WHICH IS THE POWER OF HELL, so that from his death the power of FORGIVENESS flows without cease." ______________________________________________ I am now adding the complete discussion ensued today under the misplaced subject of "Benedict XVI in the News": Benodette Member Posts: 1139 (5/12/06 1:19 pm) Reply ezSupporter A German pope's duty at Auschwitz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- International Herald Tribune By Tim Ryback Les Combes surfaces again. The Vatican recently announced that Pope Benedict XVI will visit Auschwitz on his scheduled trip to Poland later this month. This will be his second Auschwitz visit. In 1979, when Joseph Ratzinger was archbishop of Munich, he accompanied Pope John Paul II to the former Nazi death camp, where they celebrated Holy Communion. "It was a moving idea and a moving moment to look across these horrific fields of death in which four million human beings lost their lives, and to experience the resurrection as the only true and only adequate response," he told a group of German priests afterward. There was no talk of personal remorse, no mention of German guilt. It was a singularly Catholic experience. When Benedict attended the 60th anniversary commemoration two years ago of the D-Day landings in Normandy, he cast aside his Vatican identity to bare his German soul. The day before he appeared with Queen Elizabeth II, Jacques Chirac, Gerhard Schrder and George W. Bush for the official events on the beach at Arromanches, he visited a German military cemetery at La Cambe, where 21,000 German soldiers are buried, among them several hundred former members of the notorious Waffen SS, some of whom participated in the massacre of hundreds of men, women and children in the French village of Oradour-sur-Glane. "As Germans we cannot help but be moved to realize that their idealism and their duty to the state was misused by an unjust government," Benedict said of the war dead at La Cambe. He expressed regret that the Germanic virtue of obedience - Pflicht - had been exploited and misused by the Nazis, and said that this did nothing to diminish their honor or service to the Fatherland. As with Auschwitz, there was no talk of personal culpability, not a word about German guilt. "They simply tried to do their duty - even during times of terrible self-doubt, and inner conflict," he said, noting that it was not his place to judge the dead of La Cambe "into whose conscience only God can see." Last year, when Ratzinger became the Vatican's first German pontiff in several centuries, there was much talk about "God's Rottweiler," the "Panzer Cardinal" and Ratzinger's brief stint as a German soldier and a Hitler Youth. Since then, the sniping has ceased. Benedict XVI has shown himself to be a pontiff who embraces the global community of Roman Catholics, transcending national identity and political borders with his eloquence, intelligence and compassion. He set the tone for his papacy earlier this year with the opening words of his first encyclical letter: "God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him"... Let's hope Benedict XVI brings his full moral authority, his eloquence and his insight, to help us better understand the historical and moral responsibilities of the German people 60 years after the Holocaust. If he was able to speak as a German to the dead Waffen SS soldiers in La Cambe two years ago, let's hope he can do the same for Germany's victims at Auschwitz this spring. www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/12/opinion/edryback.php mag6nideum Member Posts: 314 (5/12/06 5:25 pm) Reply Re: A German pope's duty at Auschwitz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I sometimes get the crazy idea that Ryback won't be satisfied before Pope Benedict declares that as a young teenager, he was personally responsible for the Holocaust..... Mr Ryback hopes that Benedict will succeed in helping us to "better understand the historical and moral responsibilities of the German people 60 years after the Holocaust" (Ryback). What does Ryback mean by this sentence? For the past 60 years the media, films, TV-documentaries, books, academical studies etc. have made it more than clear that the Germans as a people had guilt in this, although many Germans still swear that they were not conscious/didn't know about the atrocities or even the existence of the concentration camps. Others did know and show no guilt feelings. I don't know if the Pope is going to fall to his knees like the secular German leaders had done, as described by Ryback. He will probably speak of the German guilt this time; I somehow never got the idea that he has ever denied it. But one wonders if, at Les Combes cemetry, relatives of the German soldiers had been present. People who perhaps still miss their dead loved ones, old people who in the War had lost everything, including husbands or fathers at whose graves they stood with Cardinal Ratzinger. Would that be the right time to deliver a dramatic mea culpa-like confession of the terrible moral guilt of the dead ones as well as those around their graves? People who had, in one way or another, been relentlessly reminded of that for the past 60 years and had to live with it daily? I don't know IF there had been relatives, but had there been, the normal pastoral practise wouldn't ask for the rubbing in of more salt in the wounds. Ryback mentions that Ratzinger appeared the next day with Queen Elizabeth II and other leaders. This is an interesting coincidence. It is perhaps not as well-known that Adolf Hitler got the idea for the infamous concentration camps from the people who had first used it in a war situation:Britain. (Has Ryback ever expected the Queen to do something at least a little similar as to what he expects from Ratzinger, the ex-child Nazi-"soldier"?) The British concentration camps in South Africa during the Anglo-Boer War at the turn of the 19th-20th century succeeded where the armies of the British Empire after nearly three years could not. They completely broke the spirit of the Afrikaner/Boer soldiers because their wives and children who tended the farms and small villages were carted to concentration camps where they died in their thousands from ilnesses, hunger, cold or excessive heat. They were not housed in buildings, but in tents. My grandmother (whose name I carry) must have been a tough child. She didn't die. Others of our family were not so fortunate. Pictures taken in those camps show the same emaciated skeletons that we all got to know from the Nazi-camps. Especially the faces and eyes of the living-dead children are haunting and profoundly sad. These were also my people, my family. Did "the English" population know about this? Yes. They were made fully conscious of the atrocities by an English woman, Emily Hobhouse - an angel. When Queen Elizabeth visited South Africa decades later she declined visiting the Vroue-monument (Monument for the thousands of women and children who died in the British concentration camps in S. Africa.) May I add here that, as in the case of Germany later, Britain was the aggressor in this war - after gold had been found in the Johannesburg area... I may be very wrong, and will make doubly sure about this, but Britain, or more specific the British people, had not shown any mea culpa- behaviour in this regard. Queen Elizabeth's refusal to show her face at the monument is a reminder of this. But from our side there is no lingering rancour against England, no expectation that the British as a nation should accept moral responsibility and guilt for the fact that especially the small Afrikaner nation's population and subsequent population growth after the Anglo-Boer War had been stinted for decades. Granted, the British didn't build gas ovens to systematically murder people! But the idea of concentration camps originated from the British generals and one feels they are the culprits, not the whole British nation. In a recent BBC-documentary on the Holocaust the interviewer spoke to an English historian about the terrible effectiveness of the Nazi-camps thought out by Hitler and company. The Brit bowled me over with his honest and somewhat shame-faced answer: "Hitler got the idea of concentration camps from us. He knew we used it in South Africa." (Quotation perhaps not in this exact word sequence). History is in many ways a mirror of the "fallen" state of mankind. I wonder if there is a nation on earth without guilt of some sort. Skeletons will come tumbling out of every nation's cupboard if we dare open the door. What happened in Nazi-Germany will never be completely understood. Many historians have written about the complex reasons for that tragic part of humankind's history. Most of them also admit that in the last analysis an element of total incomprehensibility remains. Some things cannot be fully explained or understood by mere mortals. If Benedict's words at Auschwitz succeed in satisfying mr. Ryback's expectations as to this mystery, he will probably have to use the word "evil" or "sin". If Benedict should happen to admit the comprehensive guilt of his own people, it may just for a second flit through mr. Ryback's mind that this guilt he longs to hear expressed by the German pope, is shared in some form by every nation - and perhaps by every breathing soul on this planet, including himself. Edited by: mag6nideum at: 5/12/06 6:35 pm galantarie Member Posts: 2544 (5/13/06 3:15 pm) Reply | Edit ezSupporter "German" pope's "duty" at Auschwitz ! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Firstly, "COLLECTIVE-GUILT" is an unRoman-Catholic Principle.... "Mag6nidium" I can also relate to you accurate stories of British atrocities done to the French in Canada during the 17th and 18th Centuries, so unbelievable...there is no way anyone could perceive of human beings doing such things "en mass" to other helpless humans by the plural thousands...And if my notations are not to be believed by fellow board members here, recently (2005) a book has been written with full documented accounts by John Mack Faragher, entitled " A Great and Noble Scheme: The tragic story of the expulsion of the French Acadians from their American Homeland".... Why should Our Papa be guilty of Nazi atrocities committed by Nazis, just because of his German background? Roman Catholics do not believe in culmative collective-guilt just by association. Each individual will be judged separately, NOT AS A GROUP; and justly so for Christ's winning atonement for man. ...And, why should Ryback be telling Our Holy Father what he MUST atone for as as individual? Who is Ryback to be judging? Why should the truly innocent be condemned collectively with the evil just because of nationality? He apparently also cannot perceive the true principle , so very important, of forgiveness! Writing on forgiveness, in the same "Called to Communion" [pp.148-152] as I quoted from above, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote: Quote: Then, speaking about the modern morality, Cardinal Ratzinger says: Quote: Therein Cardinal Ratzinger brings to our attention the "mordant aphorism" of Pascal.."Behold the fathers who take away the sins of the world..."; and he continues, in saying: Quote: He then points to G~urres' essay on Sigmund Freud, the "new Messiah from Vienna", to illustrate his point in the footnotes herein...., emphasizing: Quote: ---------------------------------------------------------------- *This is in reference to Papa's allegory of the sculptor who sees an image in a lump of rock...and who only needs to clear away the excess, the extraneous, and the uneeded to bare the true image within it. _________________________________________________ Benodette Member Posts: 1147 (5/13/06 7:51 pm) Reply ezSupporter Re: "German" pope's "duty" at Auschwitz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mag6 Thank you for this very informative post. I did not know that the concentration camp was something first used by the British in the war in South Africa. All wars are terrible, and colonial wars are no exception. My country certainly did some terrible things in the fight for colonies, and the same is true of many other countries with a colonial past. With regard to the Nazi use of concentration camps, I suppose the fundamental difference is that in this instance they were used with the express purpose of annihilating an entire race, not for any strategic military or territorial gains, but simply because the people were Jewish and deemed unfit to live. Millions died, treated worse than cattle. The two great European wars of the last century still reverberate down the generations because of the sheer magnitude of the loss of life. Even though I am part of a generation which is not directly touched by those wars, they are still part of my heritage. When I stand in Flanders and see the miles of white graves reaching the horizon, or look down from the heights of Monte Cassino and see endless waves of crosses spanning the hillside, the futility and horror of it all still strikes at my heart. In November, I always wear my poppy of remembrance for the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, when the carnage of the first Great War was halted. There are still many people living who are part of the war generation. I have German friends in their early seventies who vividly remember the horror of those years. They were too young too fight, but old enough to remember. They still feel horror at what was done in the name of their nation. Eventually that will fade, but it will still be a while before it does. Someone like Joseph Ratzinger can help it to fade. I have never been able to track down the full text of Cardinal Ratzinger's speech at Les Combes. I am pretty certain that it was a purely pastoral address which was entirely appropriate for the occasion. He has already visited Auschwitz twice. On his first visit in 1979 he said: "I came especially to participate in this event because I think that we Germans have special reasons to do it. It should be a source of reconciliation and a warning that nothing of this kind can ever be repeated". Again in 1980: "Almighty God, the place we are standing in brings to memory the ruthless and severe power of lawlessness committed by the Germans. Gathered in prayer at the place of his sacrifice, we all confess to jointly make an effort to overcome the enmity and hatred between nations". I am sure he will find the right words again which are appropriate for the occasion. I don't think for one moment that Ryback holds the Pope morally responsible in any way for the terrible events of World War II. He is expressing a hope that he will use his tremendous eloquence and his undoubted moral authority to finally heal the still painful wounds. I am confident that Pope Benedict will do that, and that we will all weep with emotion when he does so. ________________________________________________ NOW I SHALL CONTINUE, WITH THE FOLLOWING: Paul Althaus, was a German Protestant of the 1930's. He was a follower of the teaching of the philosopher Origen! To co-incide and find Nazism compatible with his mode of thinking, he presummed God placed his birth in a particular nation/country, therefore distinguishing his rights and "blood" from others. And so, with all those of "his" people of Teutonic origin...with a pre-set language and history. So, that in his line of thinking, there was intended to be peoples of superiority, and those of lower-castes. [Not only did this sound like the Vishnu/Hindu thinkings (which is totally anti-Christ-like) but it suited well the the German-Aryan way of contemplating the Order of Things! The only difference here, between this philosophy and Naziism, is that a Single Supreme Creator is involved, whereas Naziism is totally paganistic....men are their only gods: Man is capable of accomplishing anything he puts his mind to; and he need not be subject to any moralistic/antiqitated set of laws which would hinder his accomplishment. There is no need for penance; it is survival of the fittest...and that was how it all was intended to be.] In Althaus's warped view of "his" christianity, the "lower" castes were born to serve, others were born to rule.There is obviously a National pride in this thinking. His counrty/nation is a superior nation; he is meant to dominate, opress. Extreme "nationalism" makes the citizenry believe that their particular Nation/people's are SUPERIOR over all others. (Deutschland uber Alles). Their way is the only right way, they are of a higher intellect meant to Dominate the world. Others must come into subserviance to them. Man is degraded to a commodity, which can be expended in battle (WARS), testing for progress (MEDICAL "RESEARCH")...and when you get too old for these purposes of the State, your life can be expediated (and legally TERMINATED) at the will of/ and for the "betterment of the State". The State has/is the "Supreme Power": The only thing that one is answerable to. The weak, sick, or lame are only a hindrance to the State. (There is no such thing as "humanity".) This philosophical understanding is termed by Althaus as "Volk" ! (The absence of a terminology as "Volk" in New testament scripture was explained by saying that when the Documents of the Scriptures were written, "men had not of yet discovered the 'reality' of 'Volk'." The "reality" finally came throught the poets, scholars and thinkers, like Schiller, and Herder...the "Idealistic-Romantic" philosophers, like the later Nietsche and Hegel. He called it, "The Law of God as newly revealed for the modern German era." "THE KINGDOM OF GOD" aka Ratzinger: The Kingdom of God/ The kingdom of Heaven [pp.37-60in "Eschatologie: Tod und ewiges Leben" Regensburg 1977] Jesus' proclamation of the Kingdom of God or "The Kingdom of Heaven" "is the true 'lietmotiv' [theme] of Jesus' preaching".... 'The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand' means "God is close." I want to quote from and paraphrase Papa's lovely (1990/1)book for us, "Called to Communion" ["Zur Gemeinschaft gerufen: Kirche heute verstehen", HERDER VERLAG], particularly pp. 7-25: From the very start of Our Lord's incarnation, man's perspective of God radically changed. Prior to the Birth, God was Unknown, Figureless, a deep Mystery not to be depicted or drawn....and praying to Him was not "personal". But with the advent of Our Lord into human-form, came the understanding of a compassionate God, a God who was like us, and felt like us, saw things just as we see, taste and hear! We could now communicate with him one on one. We could listen to Him, see Him and even possibly (with intentiveness) undertand his intentions for mankind. Jesus left us men who could "interpret [His] Jesus' words and intentions themselves in the light of the great stream of the lived liturgy." "In both her sacramental life and proclamation of the Word, the Church constitutes a distinctive subject whose memory preserves the seemingly past word and action of Jesus as a present reality." To be condemned are "interpretations" which "assail the identity of the Church's memory and replace it with a different mentality, a move that is tantamount to attempting its destruction as memory." In the early hours of the 20th Century, where Western man was relying solely (as if enlightened) on science and technology, a Great War ensued, proving such a godless outlook fails as "a force of ethical order." And so arose a "yearning for communion in the sacred."...There was a growing awareness that the Messiah is unthinkable without the Church"....It was found that "The Last Supper was the origin of the Church and Her permanent rle"...."The Second Vatican council also came to exercise a powerful influence in Catholicism." But then, unfortunately, the Post WW II world developed a very sick (but powerful) "Liberation-Theology" "This new version of Liberalism was quite suseptible to being converted into a Marxist-oriented interpretation of" the Bible. The following were their most FALSE interpretations: 1) "Jesus lost his life engaged in combat against the forces of oppression"...["the suffering and struggling prolateriat 'of the People'"]. 2) presumably there is an ongoing confict between the priest and the prophet, as they mis-perceived the Old Testament to be, "which comes to its final conclusion with the victory of the oppressed and with the emergence of the classless society. The fact that Jesus hardly mentioned the Church but spoke repeatedly of The Kingdom of God can be easily intergrated into this view. The 'Kingdom' is the classless society, which is held out as the objective toward which the downtrodden people struggle...." The bibical priests and prophets correlate with the Institutions and the people. The 'popular church' is pitted against the institutional or 'Official [Roman-Catholic] Church. This 'popular church' is ceaslessly born-out of the people and in this way carries forward Jesus' cause: his struggle against institutions and their oppressive power for the sake of a new and free society that will be the 'Kingdom'." -------------------------------------------------------------- "...an historical reading of the texts reveals that the opposition of the Kingdom and" [clash with] "the Church has no factual basis." Herein Papa cites Leonardo Boff's book "Chiesa, carisma e poter " [Rome, 1983] through which the media and public were drawn away from Church Truth "in the process of popularization."... "In postexilic prophecy, the coming of the Kingdom is proceded by the prophet Elijah or by the anonymous 'angel' who prepares the people for it." Jeremias, in his book "New Testament Theology" [Gtersloh, 1971]1:167, formulates this conclusion: Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We must reduce the question quite sharply to a single point: the 'sole' meaning of the entire activity of Jesus is the gathering of the eschatological people of God. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Jesus speaks of this people using many images, particularly in the parables having to do with growth. Yet, as he does so, it becomes apparent that the 'soon' of the imminent eschatology characteristic of John the Baptist and Qumran PASSES OVER WITH JESUS INTO THE 'NOW' OF CHRISTOLOGY. JESUS HIMSELF IS GOD'S ACTION, HIS COMING, HIS REIGNING. IN JESUS' MOUTH, 'KINGDOM OF GOD' DOES NOT MEAN SOMETHING OR PLACE BUT THE PRESENT ACTION OF GOD. One may therefore translate the programmatic declaration declaration of Mark 1:15, 'the Kingdom of God is near at hand', as 'God is Near'.*We perceive once more the connection with Jesus, with his person; He himself is God's nearness. Wherever he is, is the Kingdom....But Jesus is never alone. For He came in order to gather together what was dispersed...." Herein Papa gives us the beginnings of an understanding of what is the Church: an organized, institutionalized people who through His call, respond to His call and to His person. "Among the many images that Jesus utilzed for His new people---flock, wedding guests, plantation, God's building, God's city---one stands out as His favorite, that of the family of God. Jesus is the Master of the House, and it therefore stands to reason that He addresses the members of this people as children, even though they are adults; and that to gain true understanding of themselves, those who belong to this people, must first lay down their grown-up autonomy, and acknowlege themselves as children before God." The next step, in defining the Church, Our Papa observes is prayer (the working force of the Community), as Jesus' diciples request of Jesus a special prayer for their communal group. It is their "badge". It is an awareness that their special source is Jesus. And instead of stone-clubs and pitchforks, their fire-brands are holy prayer and fasting. This is the first "cell of the Church"...."The Community of Jesus' diciples is not an amorphous mob." Papa then goes on to the actual structures within it, the twelve, seventys, 72's, etc... It is not stuctured as a political arm; but rather as a moralistic and teaching device safeguarding His whole flock, so as to not melt back into the 'world'. Nowhere was it's intent to bring down the secular State, or to force personal agendas upon non-believers. But through its inspiration and ensuing beauty, love of life as a Sacred Conception, it would eventually truly move mountains and people unto itself, finally to encompass the entire earth, not just a small single nation. (The Nationalism of the Jewish Revolt of 66AD against Rome in Jerusalem, was not any part of the Church's criteria; even though in the ensuing years, Christians would be the fodder of the Lions of the Roman's 'Circus Maximus'! Constantine safeguarded the Church; but was not a Pope.... Onward 'in time' Charlemagne was crowned Emperor of the European State, by Pope Leo III, as 'protector of the Holy See', (much like the Swiss Guards of today). Even unto this very day, the Vatican wields only the position of 'moral-advisor' to the U.N and the World. It has, and desires, no political power.) and thus Our Motto can be: Jesus, I trust in You.... Jesus, I trust in You.... Jesus, I trust in You. ___________________________________________ so the meaning of Papa's book, "God is Near Us, The Eucharist, the Heart of Life". This is prophetic-expectation, Ratzinger exclaims: Quote:"This is nowhere clearer than in His promise of God's Kingdom to the poor, in the many meanings of that term, and His linking of the gift of the Kingdom, in dissoluble manner, with repentance. Jesus may have taken-up Apocalyptic elements of the 'prototype-Rabbinic' strand; but basicly it was anew, this, [His] image of the Kingdom of Heaven.: Quote:"The Kingdom is announced beneath the sounds of joy, festivity and beauty, as in the parables of the Wedding Feast and the Great Banquet, as well as through images of the powerlessness, as in the parables of the Mustard Seed, The Leaven, and the Haul of Good and Bad Fish, the Field of Wheat and Tares...The Victory of God, under the species of insignificance, of the Passion: This is His new Image of the Kingdom. The "Lignes majeures" of His teachings converge upon Himself as the Eschatological Sign of God. 'The Kindom is among you' means "Entos humin" (as an ironic reference to the Person of the Preacher who He is): The Kingdom in Person. Within here, Ratzinger places a "logion": He casts out demons "by the finger of God". Jesus Quote: Jesus is therefore the Kingdom, as through Him, God's Spirit acts upon the world. This is the basis of the unity of the preaching of Jesus and the Church's preaching concerning Him. It is "Christological"; since it comes from Christ in that the Spirit [the Active Reign of God] comes. Plurality is found in the Synoptic presentations of Jesus' Eschatological discourse found in Mark 13. Jesus has proclaimed paraboliclally the Gospel of the Kingdom as a reality, at once present and yet to come. "Kom, Jesu kom zu deiner Kirche," Johann Sabastien Bach [Cantata BWV #161]... Jesus is proclaimed the Christ who acts in the Spirit, thus constituting Himself "the present Form of the Kingdom"....And yet, gazing upon the Risen Christ, (the Early Church) learns that a "Parousia" has taken place already. The Church knows no theology of hope; but, rather of a "now" in which the Promise was a Presense. But, this Presense was Itself hope...It was understood to bear the future within Itself. (This is Jesus' relation to The End of times.) It is the "Theology of Hope" : the political theology of Johann Baptist Metz. "Here and there we find gleams of real gold" BUT, the Church founded on the Gospel must not only give people hope, but give them truly evangelical-hope!: Quote: Aidan Nichols paraphrases all this of Ratzinger, by saying, the transformation of eschatology into political messianism allows the distinctive content of Christian hope to drain-away, quoting Ratzinger: Quote: On the other hand, this is not to say that the Kingdom is irrevelent to politics: it is supremely revelent, but as an ETHICAL, NOT AN ESCHATOLOGICAL REALITY. Ratzinger says: Quote: In opposition to warped "crooked-cross-christianity", Ratzinger adores St. Augustine, who in his "City of God" * undertook an analysis of [and attacked] the concept of state "religion"...of which Nazism obvious is. Secondly, he proved [as Aiden Nichols, O.P put forth so accurately] "beyond the unreal gods of civil-religion stands the only too real power of the demons... It is an assault on the divinisation of the 'polis'."There is no such thing as a pure, ideal earthly community; there is no earthly-theocracy. The "City of God" is not upon this plane of earthly conception; but is of a Spiritual-Sphere of an existance totally real, but not of a material "this universe" concept. It reaches the "Beyond": The realm of God and Righteousness emmanating from Jesus. It is of the same sphere as the reality of the Holy Eucharist! All states [or "The State"] upon this worldly earth, and despite all "chritianisations" remain foreign to God. The Holy Roman Catholic Church is an alien-community to all the states upon this earth: The Church may use (and certainly has to use) earthly-realities; but is never "at-home" herein. Still, as in a "republic State", that civil-state may use and have real Christians serving within that state (to balance a purely civil authority and moderate it with godly wisdom and purity: In this manner benefiting help the citizenry); it is till only PROVISIONAL to this world. Augustine argues that for this mortal world, only the Gospel itself points us to the One, Absolute God; and the Only Mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ Our Lord, King of Kings, the Beginning and End of all Things seen and unseen, Eternal, not made and not passing-away (as all else is/does pass-away). Dr.Jos Yulo has struck the hammer on the nail ! Compare this article with the end of Cardinal Ratzinger's D-Day speech made at Arramanches on 05 June 2004 where he says: "There is yet a third element of Christian tradition that I wish to mention, that, in the afflictions of our time, is of fundamental importance. Christian belief - following in the way of Jesus - has negated the idea of political theocracy. It has - to express it in modern terms - produced the worldliness of states, wherein Christians along with the adherents of other convictions live together in peace. Thus is distinguished the Christian belief that the Kingdom of God does not exist as a political reality, and cannot so exist, but rather, through faith, hope and love is it attained, and the world transformed from within. But under the conditions of temporality, the Kingdom of God is no worldly empire, but rather, a call for the freedom of humanity and a support for reason that it may fulfill its own mission. The temptations of Jesus were ultimately about this distinction, about the rejection of political theocracy, about the relativity of states and reason's own law, as well as about the freedom to choose, which is meant for every person. In this sense, the secular state follows from of a fundamental Christian decision, even if it required a long struggle to understand this in all its consequences. This worldly, "secular" state incorporates, in its essence, the balance between reason and religion, which I have tried here to present. However, it stands against secularism as an ideology, which would, as it were, construct the state from pure reason, released from all historical roots, and which can thus recognize no moral foundations that are not discernable to reason. All that is left it, in the end, is the positivism of the greatest number, and with it the abasement of right; ultimately, it is to be governed by a statistic. If the countries of the West were to commit wholly to this path, they could not indefinitely withstand the press of the ideologues and political theocrats. Even a secular state may - indeed, must - find its support in the formative roots from which it grew, it may and must acknowledge the foundational values without which, it would not have come to be, and without which, it cannot survive. Upon an abstract, an a-historical reason, a state cannot endure." The Witness given to Joseph Ratzinger, (by such men as Augustine*[A] and Bonaventure, in his early manhood) and his parental cultivation of his classical-musical-mindset, molded the industry and thinking of Joseph Ratzinger (to such holy, positive and true-conviction of the beauty, truth and eternal love of God for His Creation) that the circumstances of having to live under such a Nazi Totalitarian state, only, all the more, motivated him to obtain the Priesthood: That he might be mentally free from the oppression of National-Socialist State; and strive to become a member of the Community of the Body of Christ...(totally alien to this earth, but striving to overcome the greed and hardships endured by his fellow dwellers of this planet in its present state). To alleviate the pains and sufferings of his fellow men, give them eine Hoffnung...showing them the eternal love for them by God...Ratzinger himself became a "servant of servants" [as a messenger of Christ the Living and Only true Lord]. Please read the heart-rendering "D-Day" speeches Papa gave 5/6 June 2004 at the Caen, Arromanches and LaCambe Cemetaries found in: "Werte in Zeiten des Umburchs: Die Herausforderungen der Zukunft bestehen" ("Values in Time of Upheaval: The challenges of the future, pass", the Third Chapter: The Responsibility for Peace, Making the Right-Stand/Verantwortung fr den Frieden - Richtpunkte")HERDER 2005. I bought the book last JUNE 2005. And what he says within it are a real treasure of love, deep-understanding and hope....A partial English translation is given here: www.logosjournal.com/issue_4.2/ratzinger.htm ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ *[A]: for one the best and finest understandings as of yet, of St. Augustine, and the similtude of J.R.R.Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" (concerning the misuse of power vs. the Heavely mandated/ordained exercise therof): Jos Yulo _____________ : on another note, speaking on "art", Spengler summerized Our Papa's views on J.R.R.Tolkien as follows: Of all the Catholic writers, J R R Tolkien understood this point perhaps the best. His high-Elven master smith Feanor created the Silmarils, three jewels of astonishing beauty, and went to war when they were stolen. His defect was exceeding pride in the work of his hands. The tragedy of the Elves to some extent is the tragedy of the artists. Ultimately it is the virtues of the humble Hobbits rather than the magnificence of the Elves that will prevail. Music, like science, offers mere potential for good; the good is sui generis. For art to serve the good, the artist must first be good. Benedict XVI, as noted, stated that "reverence, receptivity and humility" characterize the musician whose art exalts rather than confuses the listener. Religion can engage art as its servant only after it has converted the artist. ------------------------------------------------------ Our Papa used also Tolkien's imagery of the tree, as an example of the heavenly ordained growth of the Church. Tolkien elegantly put it this way: Quote:[just by reading the admonitions of St. Paul we know that this was not true; for, even the Early Church had it's heretics and false lay teachers in dire need of apostolic correction!] See also: Ratzinger at Seminary for Priesthood at 19 with Alfred Lpple Why Ratzinger/Benedict XVI became a Priest which is part of his question and answer meeting with young collegial students in Rome: Papa's Meeting with the young people of the Diocese of Rome 06April 2006 Here are the words Our Holy Father actually said (in Italian): Quote: "Frauenkirche, Munich 1944: ![]() Corpus Christi, 31 May 1945: ![]() Ratzinger, as Master of Ceremonies at age 20 in Partenkirchen, 06 JULY 1947: ![]() From Peter Seewald we read: The Pope is "not a politician," Seewald said. "He has no next election waiting in the wings, only the Last Judgment. And Benedict has no intention of distancing himself from the magnificent legacy of his predecessor. On the contrary, he wants to bring it to full fruition. And that is plenty to accomplish." What governing style does Seewald observe in the present Pope?: Ratzinger has found a quite distinctive, very subtle style. Reserved, calm, almost shy, and yet he very firmly goes his own way. There is an air of meekness that you recognize from the Gospels. The new Pope makes himself little-- and gives the impression of being that much greater, and as a result his office is all the more accessible. In a certain way Benedict is a born teacher, and what he has started with his new school of faith may be the greatest catechesis since the time of the apostles. Since the papal election Ratzinger's image has changed radically. He is now "the most powerful German of all times. But he does not represent an imperialistic power or a misanthropic ideology; instead he stands exclusively for positive things like love, peace, and solidarity." "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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harroldian |
Re: Our Papa could NEVER be a Nazi | #37 | ||
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Galentarie, What a super posting. I agree totally. Without Christ, society will tend to the tyranny. We are concerned about the EU not honouring with Europe's Christian heritage. You might like this from the TRC site tcrnews2.com/ChristNietzscheIslam.html
Do you listen to Radio Vatican. I listen on short wave. It frequently speaks on culture. On Friday, there was a programme on Christian death with the music of Elgar in the background and then some of the Dream of Gerontius. A good book on Tolkien is Secret Fire by Stratford Caldecott of the journal & website Second Spring which is concerned with Catholicism and culture. www.secondspring.co.uk/I have myslf spoken on Christianity & Tolkien. My theological hero, Aidan Nicholls O.P. also writes on this.Christendom awake is a great book of his. Look at the website of the same name : www.christendom-awake.org I am delighted that we have a pope who is concerned with Christian culture and who is a musician. |
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galantarie |
Our Holy Mother | #38 | ||
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"Harroldean":
Thanks so much again. Did you also know that the 12 stars on the emblem of the "European Union" stand for THE CROWN OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY! *? Mary will prevail and protect the EU, despite Turkey and those who have forgotten her.... ------------------------------------------------------------ *The Vatican plans to issue its first Euro coins bearing a bust of Benedict XVI , according to information from the Vatican's numismatic bureau. Catholic World News reports that the Bureau will release a full set of coins, denominated in euros, bearing a bust of the Pope on one side, with the inscription "Citta del Vaticano" and 12 stars representing the European Union, symbolic of the crown of Mary. The other side of the coin will be the same as the obverse of coins minted by other member-states of the European Union. As a party to the EU agreement on currency, the Vatican has the right to mint its own distinctive coins; this will be the sixth set of euros printed since the agreement came into force in December 2000. The Vatican coins, will be offered for sale in two different sets, with one special set including a commemorative medal of St Matthew the evangelist. These sets, bearing a cover price of $50 (30) and $232 (140). The euros minted by the Vatican are legal tender in all of the countries adhering to the EU monetary accord. _________________________________________________ "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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galantarie |
Originally to be named " 'church' of Hitler" | #39 | ||
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Germany | 21.04.2006
"Saving the Last "Nazi" Church" by Jabeen Bhatti ![]() Jesus, a German soldier and an Aryan family adorn the pulpit A protestant parish is trying to raise money to restore the Martin Luther Memorial Church in Berlin -- and its National Socialist ornamentation -- as a memorial to the victims of the Nazis. The imposing Martin Luther Memorial Church in Mariendorf, south Berlin, looks like many others built in the 20th century, with its brick and stone Bauhaus-style exterior. But the last surviving Nazi-era church in Germany is also a place where pastors preached from pulpits adorned with Aryans, and babies were baptised in a font featuring carvings of a Nazi storm trooper. In fact, the National Socialist link is clear from the outset. In the lobby, an iron cross chandelier illuminates the busts of Martin Luther and Field Marshall Paul von Hindenburg, Germany's famous World War I commander.Church officials believe that there was initially a likeness of Adolf Hitler -- after whom the church was supposed to be named. ![]() The swastikas have been removed In the main part of the church, stained glass windows framed by a stone arch face pews for 800 worshipers and a giant organ. The organ was first used at National Socialist rallies in Nuremberg in 1935 -- the year the church was opened and two years after Hitler came to power. The huge stone archway has friezes on its square panels. Images of crosses and other religious symbols are next to those of workers, soldiers, eagles and some blank panels -- the swastikas were removed because they are illegal in Germany. The altar features a Jesus that could have been a body builder. "Everything is about power, strength and victory," said Ilse Klein, a historian who works at the church. They are clearly fascist symbols. Saving their church The church was originally designed in 1928 before the Nazis seized power. It was in continuous use until two years ago, when the stability of the tower was threatened and tiles began falling off. The parish has been lobbying the government of Berlin and the Protestant church organizations for the 3.5 million euros they need to rebuild. But there are hundreds of churches in Germany in need of money and the city of Berlin is practically broke. ![]() The Nazis tried to force churches to take on their ideology As a result, the parish leaders hope to get historical designation from the city so that they can then apply for funds set aside for historical landmarks from foundations. And though they dont plan to use the church again for regular services, they hope to hold special ceremonies, concerts and exhibitions marking anniversaries such as the liberation of Auschwitz concentration camp on Jan. 27, 1945. It was the times, said Klein. But it is not common anymore to see politics illustrated inside of a church so clearly. That is why we want to save it -- to remind people this should never happen again. Storm troopers of Jesus Many Nazi-era buildings have been preserved and are still in use today. Berlin's Olympic Stadium, for example, was designed by Hitlers favorite architect, Albert Speer in 1936, and the Nazis central bank is now used by the foreign ministry. But the church presents a trickier problem because it clearly shows that churches collaborated with the Nazis more than is commonly acknowledged. Initially, the Catholic Church collaborated with Hitler after Pope Pius XI signed a treaty with him in 1933. But that collapsed in 1937 when Hitler began putting Catholic clergy on trial after the pontiff issued a statement of concern because of years of Nazi interference. Meanwhile, Hitler appointed Ludwig Mller as the Reich's Bishop to lead a movement of Protestant National Socialists called the German Christians, also known as the Storm troopers of Jesus. Soon after, Hitler tried to force Protestant churches to join the Reich's Protestant Church, which promoted an Aryan Jesus and wanted to replace the bible with "Mein Kampf." Brave clergy As parishioners were increasingly turning towards National Socialism, some church officials gave in so that they could keep their churches intact and help others such as members of the Confessional Church, organized by dissident Protestant clergy. They preached inner resistance and said that was better than being jailed, said Klein. Some people were even braver. People such as Pastor Max Kurzreiter of the Martin Luther Memorial Church who helped people being persecuted by the Nazis. Pius XII considered resigning to thwart Nazis Pope Pius XII was aware of Hitler's plan to kidnap him, and prepared a letter of resignation to take effect if he was captured by the Nazis, according to the author of a new German book on the wartime Pontiff. The authors of the new book, Werner Kaltefleiter and Hans Peter Oschwald, say that Pope Pius had signed the resignation letter, stipulating that he would revert to the status of a cardinal if he was taken hostage, the Italian ANSA news agency reports. Excerpts from their forthcoming book have appeared in the German daily Bild. Father Peter Gumpel, a Jesuit historian who is working on the cause for beatification of Pope Pius XII, confirms that the Pontiff had tentative plans to resign in case he was captured. While skeptical about the existence of a signed resignation letter, Father Gumpel believes that a "verbal agreement" had been reached to allow for a change in leadership at the Vatican in his absence. In their book, Spione im Vatikan, Kaltefleiter and Oschwald explore espionage efforts against the Vatican from the beginning of World War II to the present day. The book gives special attention to the efforts by Hitler's Nazis and by later Communist regimes to undermine the power of the Church. The authors say that Hitler enthusiastically authorized a raid on the Vatican, to take place in 1943, with the objective of kidnapping the Pope. Hitler's implacable hostility toward the wartime Pontiff, and the determination of Pope Pius to thwart the kidnapping plans, contrast sharply with the charges made by critics who say that the Pope was too willing to tolerate the Nazi regime. In fact EUGENIO PACELLI - PIUS XII - is the Pope who converted the Grand Rabbi of Rome, ISRAELE ZOLLI*, on the 13th February 1945, to the Holy Roman Catholic Church. For this reason Zionists have pitted themselves against Pacelli's cause for Sainthood; and eversince, have done everything to discredit his name, and the Roman-Papacy in general, with subversive lies. *:Zolli's conversion, by self-admittance, was a result of the efforts of POPE PIUS XII during (and just prior to) WW II in regard to the rescue of Jews from the Nazi regime and the Italian fascists. Zolli is considered by Zionists a "MESHUMAD" (Voluntary Apostate), causing them "embarassment". Calling it an "anathema", they refuse to speak his name. Zolli's autobiography concerning his conversion is called: "BEFORE THE DAWN" [Sheed and Ward, New York, 1945]. Israeli Zolli died on a Friday, 02 March 1956, and remains, with Pacelli, on the Zionist "hate" list. Pope Pius XII EUGENIO PACELLI (1876 - 195 ![]() [Portrait by Yousuf Karsh of Ottawa] (The Pope who saved the Jews from the Nazis.) The Holy War Dietrich vonHildebrand was the thorn in Hitler's side; and concerning the Pope, "Pius XII? This is the only human being who has always contradicted me and who has never obeyed me!": So it was recorded of Adolf Hitler [from Hans Jansen's The Silent Pope? (2000)]. Scandinavian Roman-Catholic Apostalate "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Originally to be named " 'church' of Hitler" | #40 | ||
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A very interesting post, Galantarie. Thank you.
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