Regards
Christopher Perrins
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Christopher Perrins |
Ratzinger and the Nazis |
Lead | ||
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In your sparse biography of Ratzinger you have missed out the fact that he was a member of the Hitler Youth in Nazi Germany during WWII. Neither did Ratzinger resist the draft, choosing to work for the Nazi army rather than claim status as a Conscientious Objector (as Jehovah's Witnesses did in Ratzinger's home town). Ratzinger made no attempt to assist in the resistance in his hometown.
Regards Christopher Perrins |
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blostopher |
Re: Ratzinger and the Nazis | #1 | ||
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We dealt with this a while ago, actually in a post to the blog.
The story that Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler Youth is true. It's a biographical fact that seems to have circulated on many a mailing list, and seems to surface at precisely opportune times when the Prefect finds himself in the media's spotlight. From the way it has been presented one might assume this is one of those skeletons the Cardinal keeps tucked away in his closet (next to his executioner's axe and the token heads of Hans Kung, Matthew Fox, Leonardo Boff & Charles Curran). The truth is that Ratzinger himself mentions in Milestones: Memoirs: 1927 - 1977 that he and his brother George were both enrolled in the Hitler Youth (at a time when membership was compulsory), and discusses family life under the Third Reich in chapters 2-4 of his autobiography. Likewise, John Allen Jr., journalist for the National Catholic Reporter and author of 2002's biography of the Cardinal Ratzinger: The Vatican's Enforcer of the Faith supplies the historical details sorely lacking in some of the more tabloid-esque articles on the Cardinal:
"The Vatican's Enforcer", National Catholic Reporter, April 16, 1999. http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/041699a.htm |
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peter22 |
Re: Ratzinger and the Nazis | #2 | ||
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I'm not concerned with Ratzinger's past, what frightens me is his current position. When he says that
"Those who seek the truth find themselves objectively on the path that leads to Christ" (www.ratzingerfanclub.com/...sion.html) He seems to me to be, in the name of fighting a Nazi-like perspective of the world, in fact contributing to it in our own time. This is because, whenever we look at History, it becomes apparent that oppressive and manipulative societies were created by the lack of fundamental freedom and respect for others' opinions, and not so much because 'they had (not) the truth'. There were periods of great freedom in Greece and India, and there were periods of great oppression in catholic Europe, and among Jewish people, and among people from other religions, at times when theology was quite developed. Jesus showed us that there were only two central commandments, and both of them had the word 'love' on top. He didn't tell us to study theology and dwell on the mysteries of the trinity. Much less that the ones who did should have authority over others. I can't see that anywhere in the Gospels. Unfortunately, we are still being deceived by the promise of exaltation and of 'being of special help', of grandeur, that being in the possession of 'The Truth' purportedly brings. Instead of becoming better lovers we bind ourselves to judge others and to become an instrument, not of love, but of condemnation and oppression. It is not the past that frightens me. It is the repetition of the past. |
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The Prophet |
Furher Ratzinger | #3 | ||
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Gentlemen, Finally some other enlightened people who see Ratzinger as his true self. It is extremely upsetting to see how one man can do such damage to the Church in such a short time. He demands that all priests be deified and that the Church should return to its stale and corrupt Pre Vatican II standing. Catholic laity should be very wary of this ex Nazi turned cleric background and how he is trying to create his own Catholic Church. It is time for all laity to unite and demand his removal at once. That way we can follow the message of Jesus who foretold the downfall of the priesthood of his day, the priesthood of today should be concerned as they are heading down the same path.
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semperidem |
Fuhrer Ratzinger? | #4 | ||
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Hmm. Perhaps we should look closely at the argument. We know that priests are absolutely necessary to confect the sacraments, including of course the sacrament of Penance. Imagine what the world would be like without the chance of forgiveness of sins! If Ratzinger seeks to restore the priesthood to a prior understanding, it is only an attempt to remind us of what is objectively true. We NEED priests. The next time you see one, or think of one, give thanks to God that someone listened to His call. Otherwise we could not have our sins forgiven and could not take within ourselves the Lord of Life.
Can we OVERemphasize the importance of priests? No. |
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The Prophet |
Learn to Read | #5 | ||
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Semperdieum
The stupidity that comes out in your letters continues to amaze me. We were talking about Ratzinger, the Nazi, and the way he is misguiding the Church back to its roots in the Middle Ages. He goes totally against the teaching of Vatican II ,and has created a Church in his own twisted image. It is time for him to go now! Re read the Gospels again so you can learn all that Jesus said about forgiving of sins. It is the poorly educated Ratzinger supporters like yourself that are destroying what the Catholic Church was envisioned to become through the changes of Vatican II |
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semperidem |
New Testament and forgiveness .. and my NAME | #6 | ||
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Sir:
You seem unable to type my name properly. For the purposes of this list it is semperidem (Latin for "always the same", and the Episcopal Motto of Ratzinger's predecessor once removed, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani). Now, let's look at the New Testament on forgiveness of sin. He says to the Pharisees who came to stone Mary Magdalen "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". He said to Peter and the Apostolic College "Receive the Holy Spirit: Whose sins YOU forgive, they are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU retain, they are retained". He further said to Peter "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven", and in another place "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against her." He also taught, by parables, that the publican who was truly sorry went away justified, while the one who thanked God for not being like those dirty tax collectors did not. Let's see what God taught us: The Church, through the apostolic mission of Christ's hand-picked successors, has the power to forgive sin AND not to do so. Peter (the first Pope) is the guarantor of the Catholic Faith, being the visible head of the Church on earth. We must not condemn others if, in our pride, we imagine ourselves superior to them. None of this is contravened by the work of Cardinal Ratzinger. Lest you take me for some ignorant rube or some cultured throwback, please be aware that I am not claiming that I have all the answers, only that the answers exist. Furthermore, I can't want wistfully to return to a time when I wasn't. I am a convert and a young man. My comments about the priesthood were entirely apropos as a response to your unfounded and mistaken claims about the work Ratzinger is apparently trying to do. Your attack amounted not to an attack on Ratzinger but on what he vigorously defends. Again, your argument isn't with Ratzinger but with the Church he defends. Please, let us refrain from personalized attacks since we don't know each other. |
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The Prophet |
Reading Errors | #7 | ||
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Semperidem
First if you are going to quote scripture get the historical context straight. There was no Roman Catholic Church at the time of Christ, that was to come much later in time. Jesus also said to "forgive a person seven time seventy". There is only one being with the power to be all forgiving and that is God. Second, that scripture you quoted has been used out of context by priests to justify the need for confession, which was not a practice until the middle ages. Jesus was telling his apostles that they were empowered to perform healings if they felt the person was remorseful or not and that was all. The Church in the Middle Ages then created an elaborate sacramental ritual that was totally out of context with that scripture. If you read the Bible with clarity and also understand the history of the Catholic Church then the false doctrines become quite clear. No, priests are not the only ones who can forgive sins, we all have the power to forgive, but only God has the final word. My anger with Ratzinger is that the Catholic Church for the first time in its history was beginning to amend and change many of its antiquated and false doctrines of the Middle Ages. Ratzinger has been fighting all of these efforts, and for that I am positive that God will not forgive him at his time of judgement. The Catholic Church will one day regain its true place as a religious leader, after Ratzinger and all of his kind have passed on. Catholics must become better educated to the truth in Scripture and in Church doctrine and not become blind followers of a few misguided Catholic clergy as apparently you have my friend. Pax ! |
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galantarie |
Re: Reading Errors | #8 | ||
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Here is Documented Proof of Our Papa's innocence.
How any of this survived the War is a miracle in itself! see the video footage and READ the page as well! ![]() Ratzinger conscripted into German airforce |
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Marybenedict |
Re: Reading Errors | #9 | ||
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Posts: 745 08/25/05 14:18:15 |
Well done, Galantarie!
He had nothing to do with the Nazis, other than what he was forced to do. Hitler Youth membership became compulsory - he signed the paper, but never went to a meeting. Same with the army - there was no such thing as being a "conscientious objector" in Germany!!!!!!! In England - yes - because we were a democracy. Germany was a totalitarian dictatorship. If Joseph Ratzinger had not nominally conformed he'd have been killed. So, he just did what he was forced to do. He hated it. I don't know why these people have made so much of it. Got to find something to hold against him...........because in fact there is nothing against this holy, wonderful man. I've never been happier than I've been since April 19th 2005! Thanks again, Galantarie! Love and Peace in Jesus Christ! Mary x |
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Sara Virginia |
Re: Reading Errors | #10 | ||
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Not to mention that Joseph Ratzinger was one of the participants, theologians and architects of the Vatican II conference- I don't see how he could have been that as well as be against it! He was 14 when drafted into Hitler youth - and only a teen when sent to the big draft. In my view, not too much a young, fairly sheltered fellow could do - which would not have brought death or imprisonment to himself and his family.
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Marybenedict |
Re: Reading Errors | #11 | ||
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Posts: 745 08/26/05 11:27:22 |
Earlier in this thread, I've just noticed that there was something like a personal debate - Protestant versus Catholic. If people want to indulge in this sort of discussion, I'm sure there are sites where they can do so. On the Ratzinger forum we have Protestant members who admire and love our new Papa and we are all happy together.
The person who said there was "no Roman Catholic Church" at the time of Christ.........be careful. The whole Mediterranean area was part of the Roman Empire at that time, so the Church founded by Christ and, particularly by his disciple Peter,[as commanded by Christ several times - in Matthew and John you can read this] was Roman and was Catholic [universal], as it still is. These arguments against the Truth just don't hold water. Mary x |
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ThinkingEntity |
I'm sure that Ratzi was everything else than ... | #12 | ||
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... a supporter of Nazi criminals.
I have known Ratzi in 1951 when he was a young man and I was a child of 9 years. As far as I can remember, he was always friendly, nice, understanding, never harsh, and a bit shy - a person who can only be considered thoroughly good. All the bastards who accuse Papa B to have been or be a supporter of Nazi criminals should be drowned in their own piss. |
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ladihosen |
Re: I'm sure that Ratzi was everything else than ... | #13 | ||
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You would think that this issue would just be let go. The Jewish people don't even make it an issue. They certainly had no objections to the pope's synagogue visit.
The only people that wish to make it an issue are those that have some sort of irrational personal problem with Catholicism and the pope, and want to undermine the Vatican. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with doing the public any favors of any sort. |
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Matthias |
Re: I'm sure that Ratzi was everything else than ... | #14 | ||
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Those who accuse Ratzi of being a Nazi don't know him at all and haved read a single line of his teachings...
Ratzinger was forced in the german army as any german boy was at the end of the war... He has appologised for not being a hero in that time... a hero who would refuse being conscripted a would surely have been shot... But Ratzinger fled the army as soon as he could, with the huge risk being captured (in bavaria their where huge remnants of the German army and SS) and hanged!!! Ratzinger was indeed an architect of Vatican II and only works very hard to protect this legacy of John XXIII and Paul VI !!! Anyway, who can believe that Pope John Paul II, with his huge aversion to Nazism (read HIS biography and you'll know why) could choose a Nazi to be his closest adviser??? An other thing "there was no Roman Catholic Church at the time of Christ, that was to come much later in time." For "Roman" that is true. The use of this composite term in place of the simple Roman, Romanist, or Romish; which had acquired an invidious sense, appears to have arisen in the early years of the seventeenth century. For conciliatory reasons it was employed in the negotiations connected with the Spanish Match (1618-1624) and appears in formal documents relating to this printed by Rushworth (I, 85-89). After that date it was generally adopted as a non-controversial term and has long been the recognized legal and official designation, though in ordinary use Catholic alone is very frequently employed. (New Oxford Dict., VIII, 766). But "catholic church"?? The word Catholic (katholikos from katholou -- throughout the whole, i.e., universal) occurs in the Greek classics, e.g., in Aristotle and Polybius, and was freely used by the earlier Christian writers in what we may call its primitive and non-ecclesiastical sense. Thus we meet such phrases as the "the catholic resurrection" (Justin Martyr), "the catholic goodness of God" (Tertullian), "the four catholic winds" (Irenaeus), where we should now speak of "the general resurrection", "the absolute or universal goodness of God", "the four principal winds", etc. The word seems in this usage to be opposed to merikos (partial) or idios (particular), and one familiar example of this conception still survives in the ancient phrase "Catholic Epistles" as applied to those of St. Peter, St. Jude, etc., which were so called as being addressed not to particular local communities, but to the Church at large. The combination "the Catholic Church" (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110 (!!! "much later in time"???). The words run: "Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church." So far we have been considering only the history and meaning of the name Catholic. We turn to its theological import as it has been emphasized and formalized by later theologians. No doubt the enumeration of four precise "notes" by which the Church is marked off from the sects is of comparatively recent development, but the conception of some such external tests, as pointed out above, is based upon the language of St. Augustine, St. Optatus, and others, in their controversies with the heretics of their time. In a famous passage of St. Augustine's treatise "Contra Epistolam quam vocant Fundamenti", directed against the Donatists, the holy doctor declares that besides the intrinsic acceptability of her doctrine "there are many other things which most justly keep me within the bosom of the Church", and after indicating the agreement in the faith among her members, or, as we should say, her Unity, as well as "the succession of priests from the installation of Peter the Apostle, to whom our Lord after His resurrection entrusted His sheep to be fed, down to the present episcopate", in other words the quality which we call Apostolicity (q. v.), St. Augustine continues in a passage previously cited in part, "Lastly there holds me the very name of Catholic which not without reason so closely attaches to the Church amid the heresies which surround it, that although all heretics would fain be called Catholics, still if any stranger should ask where the Catholic service is held, not one of these heretics would dare to point to his own conventicle" (Corpus Scrip. Eccles. Lat., XXV, Pt. I, 196). It was very natural that the situation created by the controversies of the sixteenth century should lead to a more exact determination of these "notes". English theologians like Stapleton (Principiorum Fidei Doctrinalium Demonstratio, Bk. IV, cc. iii sqq.) and Sander (De Visibili Monarchia, Bk. VIII, cap. xl) were foremost in urging this aspect of the question between the Churches, and foreign scholars like Bellarmine, who engaged in the same debates, readily caught the tone from them. Sander distinguished six prerogatives of the Church instituted by Christ. Stapleton recognized two primary attributes as contained in Christ's promises--to wit, universality in space and perpetuity in time--and from these he deduced the other visible marks. Bellarmine, starting with the name Catholic, enumerated fourteen other qualities verified in the external history of the institution which claimed this title (De Conciliis, Bk. IV, cap. iii). In all these varying schemes, it may be remarked, the universality of the Church was given a foremost place among her distinctive marks. However, already in the fifteenth century the theologian John Torquemada had set down the notes of the Church as four in number, and this more simple arrangement, founding upon the wording of the familiar Mass Creed (Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam Ecclesiam), eventually won universal acceptance. It is adopted, for instance, in the "Catechismus ad Parochos", which in accordance with a decree of the Council of Trent was drawn up and published in 1566 with the highest official sanction (see CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE). In this authoritative document we read: The third mark of the Church is that she is Catholic, that is, universal; and justly is she called Catholic, because, as St. Augustine says, 'she is diffused by the splendour of one faith from the rising to the setting sun'. Unlike republics of human institution, or the conventicles of heretics, she is not circumscribed within the limits of any one kingdom, nor confined to the members of any one society of men, but embraces within the amplitude of her love, all mankind, whether barbarians or Scythians, slaves or freemen, male or female. In confirmation of this, various prophetic utterances of Holy Scripture are quoted, after which the Catechism proceeds: "To this Church, built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets (Ephes., ii, 20) belong all the faithful who have existed from Adam to the present day, or shall exist in the profession of the true faith to the end of time, all of whom are founded and raised upon the one cornerstone, Christ, who made both one, and announced peace to them that are near, and to them that are afar. She is also called universal, because all who desire eternal salvation must cling to and embrace her, like those who entered the ark to escape perishing in the flood. This, therefore, is to be taught as a most just criterion to distinguish the true from a false church." This multiplex and somewhat confused presentment of the note of Catholicity undoubtedly finds its warrant in the equally wide interpretation of some of the early Fathers. Thus, for example, St. Cyril of Jerusalem says: "The Church is called Catholic because she is diffused throughout the whole world [i.e. the habitable world, oikoumenes] from one end of the earth to the other, and because she teaches universally and without curtailment all the truths of faith which ought to be known to men whether they concern visible or invisible things, heavenly things or the things of earth; further because she brings under the yoke of God's true service all races of men, the mighty and the lowly, the learned and the simple; and finally because she tends and heals every kind of sin committed by body or soul and because there is no form of virtue, whether in word or deed or in spiritual gifts of any kind whatever, which she does not possess as her own" (Cateches., xviii, 23; P. G., XXXIII, 1043). In similar terms speaks St. Isidore (De Offic., Bk. I), among the Fathers of the West, and a variety of other explanations might also, no doubt, be appealed to. But of all these various interpretations, which, after all, are not inconsistent with one another, and which are probably only characteristic of a fashion of exegesis which delighted in multiplicity, one conception of Catholicity is almost invariably made prominent. This is the idea of the actual local diffusion of the Church, and this is also the aspect which, thanks no doubt to the influence of Protestant controversy, has been most insisted upon by the theologians of the last three centuries. Some heretical and schismatical teachers have practically refused to recognize Catholicity as an essential attribute of Christ's Church, and in the Lutheran version of the Apostles' Creed, for example, the word Catholic ("I believe in the holy Catholic Church") is replaced by Christian. But in the majority of the Protestant professions of faith the wording of the original has been retained, and the representatives of these various shades of opinion have been at pains to find an interpretation of the phrase which is in any way consistent with geographical and historical facts. (For these see CHRISTENDOM.) The majority, including most of the older Anglican divines (e.g. Pearson on the Creed), have contented themselves with laying stress in some shape or form upon the design of the Founder of the Church that His Gospel should be preached throughout the world. This diffusion de jure serves its purpose sufficiently as a justification for the retention of the word Catholic in the Creed, but the supporters of this view are of necessity led to admit that Catholicity so understood cannot serve as a visible criterion by which the true Church is to be distinguished from schismatical sects. Those Protestant bodies who do not altogether reject the idea of "notes" distinctive of the true Church consequently fall back for the most part upon the honest preaching of God's word and the regular administration of the sacraments as the only criteria. (See the "Confession of Augsburg", Art. 7, etc.) But such notes as these, which may be claimed by many different religious bodies with apparently equal right, are practically inoperative, and, as Catholic controversialists have commonly pointed out, the question only resolves itself into the discussion of the nature of the Unity of the Church under another form. The same must be said of that very large class of Protestant teachers who look upon all sincere Christian communions as branches of the one Catholic Church with Christ for its invisible head. Taken collectively, these various branches lay claim to worldwide diffusion de facto as well as de jure. But clearly, here again the question primarily involved is that concerning the nature of the Unity of the Church, and it is to the articles CHURCH and UNITY, that the reader who wishes to pursue the matter further must be referred. As against these and other interpretations which have prevailed among Protestants from the Reformation until quite recent times, the scholastic theologians of the last three centuries have been wont to put forward the conception of the note of Catholicity in various formal propositions, of which the most essential elements are the following. The true Church of Christ, as it is revealed to us in prophecy, in the New Testament, and in the writings of the Fathers of the first six centuries, is a body which possesses the prerogative of Catholicity, i.e. of general diffusion, not only as a matter of right, but in actual fact. Moreover, this diffusion is not only successive--i.e. so that one part of the world after another should in course of ages be brought in contact with the Gospel-- but it is such that the Church may be permanently described as spread throughout the world. Further, as this general diffusion is a property to which no other Christian association can justly lay claim, we are entitled to say that Catholicity is a distinctive mark of the true Church of Christ. It will be seen from this that the point upon which stress is laid is that of actual local diffusion, and it can hardly be denied that both Scriptural and Patristic arguments adduced by Bellarmine, Thomassin, Alexander Natalis, Nicole, and others, to take but a few prominent names, afford strong justification for the claim. The Scriptural argument seems first to have been developed by St. Optatus of Mileve against the Donatists, and it was equally employed by St. Augustine when he took up the same controversy a few years later. Adducing a large number of passages in the Psalms (e.g. Pss. ii and lxxi), with Daniel (ch. ii), Isaiah (e.g. liv, 3), and other prophetic writers, the Fathers and modern theologians alike draw attention to the picture which is there afforded of the Kingdom of Christ the Messiah as something gloriously and conspicuously spread throughout the world, e.g. "I will give thee the Gentiles for thy inheritance and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession", "He shall rule from sea to sea", "All the nations shall serve Him", etc., etc. Moreover, in combination with these we have to notice our Lord's instructions and promises: "Go ye therefore and teach all nations", "You shall be witnesses unto me . . . even to the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts, i, In those nations therefore among whom the Church is not yet known it has still to find a place [in quibus ergo gentibus nondum est ecclesia, oportet ut sit], not indeed in such a way that all who are there should become believers; for it is all nations that are promised, not all the men of all nations. . . . Otherwise how shall that prophesy be fulfilled, 'Ye shall be hated by all for my name's sake', unless among all nations there are those who hate as well as those who are hated? Lastly, it should be said that among some confused thinkers of the Anglican communion, as also among certain representatives of Modernist opinions, an interpretation of the Catholicity of the Church has lately come into fashion which has little connection with anything that has hitherto fallen under our notice. Starting with the conception familiar in such locutions as "a man of catholic tastes", meaning a man who excludes no rational interest from his sympathies, these writers would persuade us that a catholic church either does or should mean a church endowed with unlimited comprehensiveness, i.e. which is prepared to welcome and assimilate all opinions honestly held, however contradictory. To this it may be answered that the idea is absolutely foreign to the connotation of the phrase Catholic Church as we can trace it in the writings of the Fathers. To take a term consecrated by centuries of usage and to attach a brand-new meaning to it, of which those who through the ages had it constantly on their lips never dreamed, is to say the least extremely misleading. If this comprehensiveness and elasticity of belief is regarded as a desirable quality, by all means let it have a new name of its own, but it is dishonest to leave the impression upon the ignorant or the credulous, that this is the idea which devout men in past ages have all along been groping for, and that it has been left to the religious thinkers of our own day to evolve from the name catholic its true and real significance. So far from the idea of a nebulous and absorbent substance imperceptibly shading off into the media which surround it, the conception of the Fathers was that the Catholic Church was cut off by the most clearly defined of lines from all that lay outside. Its primary function, we might also say, was to set itself in acute opposition to all that threatened its vital principle of unity and stability. It is true that patristic writers may sometimes play with the word catholic, and develop its etymological suggestiveness with an eye to erudition or edification, but the only connotation upon which they insist as a matter of serious import is the idea of diffusion throughout the world. St. Augustine, indeed, in his letter to Vincentius (Ep. xciii, in "Corpus Scrip. Eccles. Lat.", XXXIV, p. 46 And now about Penance. Penance is a sacrament of the New Law instituted by Christ in which forgiveness of sins committed after baptism is granted through the priest's absolution to those who with true sorrow confess their sins and promise to satisfy for the same. It is called a "sacrament" not simply a function or ceremony, because it is an outward sign instituted by Christ to impart grace to the soul. As an outward sign it comprises the actions of the penitent in presenting himself to the priest and accusing himself of his sins, and the actions of the priest in pronouncing absolution and imposing satisfaction. This whole procedure is usually called, from one of its parts, "confession", and it is said to take place in the "tribunal of penance", because it is a judicial process in which the penitent is at once the accuser, the person accused, and the witness, while the priest pronounces judgment and sentence. The grace conferred is deliverance from the guilt of sin and, in the case of mortal sin, from its eternal punishment; hence also reconciliation with God, justification. Finally, the confession is made not in the secrecy of the penitent's heart nor to a layman as friend and advocate, nor to a representative of human authority, but to a duly ordained priest with requisite jurisdiction and with the "power of the keys", i.e., the power to forgive sins which Christ granted to His Church. By way of further explanation it is needful to correct certain erroneous views regarding this sacrament which not only misrepresent the actual practice of the Church but also lead to a false interpretation of theological statement and historical evidence. From what has been said it should be clear: that penance is not a mere human invention devised by the Church to secure power over consciences or to relieve the emotional strain of troubled souls; it is the ordinary means appointed by Christ for the remission of sin. Man indeed is free to obey or disobey, but once he has sinned, he must seek pardon not on conditions of his own choosing but on those which God has determined, and these for the Christian are embodied in the Sacrament of Penance. No Catholic believes that a priest simply as an individual man, however pious or learned, has power to forgive sins. This power belongs to God alone; but He can and does exercise it through the ministration of men. Since He has seen fit to exercise it by means of this sacrament, it cannot be said that the Church or the priest interferes between the soul and God; on the contrary, penance is the removal of the one obstacle that keeps the soul away from God. It is not true that for the Catholic the mere "telling of one's sins" suffices to obtain their forgiveness. Without sincere sorrow and purpose of amendment, confession avails nothing, the pronouncement of absolution is of no effect, and the guilt of the sinner is greater than before. While this sacrament as a dispensation of Divine mercy facilitates the pardoning of sin, it by no means renders sin less hateful or its consequences less dreadful to the Christian mind; much less does it imply permission to commit sin in the future. In paying ordinary debts, as e.g., by monthly settlements, the intention of contracting new debts with the same creditor is perfectly legitimate; a similar intention on the part of him who confesses his sins would not only be wrong in itself but would nullify the sacrament and prevent the forgiveness of sins then and there confessed. Strangely enough, the opposite charge is often heard, viz., that the confession of sin is intolerable and hard and therefore alien to the spirit of Christianity and the loving kindness of its Founder. But this view, in the first place, overlooks the fact that Christ, though merciful, is also just and exacting. Furthermore, however painful or humiliating confession may be, it is but a light penalty for the violation of God's law. Finally, those who are in earnest about their salvation count no hardship too great whereby they can win back God's friendship. Both these accusations, of too great leniency and too great severity, proceed as a rule from those who have no experience with the sacrament and only the vaguest ideas of what the Church teaches or of the power to forgive sins which the Church received from Christ. Teaching of the Church The Council of Trent (1551) declares: As a means of regaining grace and justice, penance was at all times necessary for those who had defiled their souls with any mortal sin. . . . Before the coming of Christ, penance was not a sacrament, nor is it since His coming a sacrament for those who are not baptized. But the Lord then principally instituted the Sacrament of Penance, when, being raised from the dead, he breathed upon His disciples saying: 'Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained' (John, xx, 22-23). By which action so signal and words so clear the consent of all the Fathers has ever understood that the power of forgiving and retaining sins was communicated to the Apostles and to their lawful successors, for the reconciling of the faithful who have fallen after Baptism. (Sess. XIV, c. i) Farther on the council expressly states that Christ left priests, His own vicars, as judges (praesides et judices), unto whom all the mortal crimes into which the faithful may have fallen should be revealed in order that, in accordance with the power of the keys, they may pronounce the sentence of forgiveness or retention of sins" (Sess. XIV, c. v) Power to Forgive Sins It is noteworthy that the fundamental objection so often urged against the Sacrament of Penance was first thought of by the Scribes when Christ said to the sick man of the palsy: "Thy sins are forgiven thee." "And there were some of the scribes sitting there, and thinking in their hearts: Why doth this man speak thus? he blasphemeth. Who can forgive sins but God only?" But Jesus seeing their thoughts, said to them: "Which is easier to say to the sick of the palsy: Thy sins are forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, take up thy bed and walk? But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say to thee: Arise, take up thy bed, and go into thy house" (Mark, ii, 5-11; Matt., ix, 2-7). Christ wrought a miracle to show that He had power to forgive sins and that this power could be exerted not only in heaven but also on earth. This power, moreover, He transmitted to Peter and the other Apostles. To Peter He says: "And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven" (Matt., xvi, 19). Later He says to all the Apostles: "Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven" (Matt., xviii, 1 that the "binding" and "loosing" refers not to physical but to spiritual or moral bonds among which sin is certainly included; the more so because the power here granted is unlimited -- "whatsoever you shall bind, . . . whatsoever you shall loose"; the power is judicial, i.e., the Apostles are authorized to bind and to loose; whether they bind or loose, their action is ratified in heaven. In healing the palsied man Christ declared that "the Son of man has power on earth to forgive sins"; here He promises that what these men, the Apostles, bind or loose on earth, God in heaven will likewise bind or loose. (Cf. also POWER OF THE KEYS.) But as the Council of Trent declares, Christ principally instituted the Sacrament of Penance after His Resurrection, a miracle greater than that of healing the sick. "As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained' (John, xx, 21-23). While the sense of these words is quite obvious, the following points are to be considered: Christ here reiterates in the plainest terms -- "sins", "forgive", "retain" -- what He had previously stated in figurative language, "bind" and "loose", so that this text specifies and distinctly applies to sin the power of loosing and binding. He prefaces this grant of power by declaring that the mission of the Apostles is similar to that which He had received from the Father and which He had fulfilled: "As the Father hath sent me". Now it is beyond doubt that He came into the world to destroy sin and that on various occasions He explicitly forgave sin (Matt., ix, 2-8; Luke, v, 20; vii, 47; Apoc., i, 5), hence the forgiving of sin is to be included in the mission of the Apostles. Christ not only declared that sins were forgiven, but really and actually forgave them; hence, the Apostles are empowered not merely to announce to the sinner that his sins are forgiven but to grant him forgiveness-"whose sins you shall forgive". If their power were limited to the declaration "God pardons you", they would need a special revelation in each case to make the declaration valid. The power is twofold -- to forgive or to retain, i.e., the Apostles are not told to grant or withhold forgiveness nondiscriminately; they must act judicially, forgiving or retaining according as the sinner deserves. The exercise of this power in either form (forgiving or retaining) is not restricted: no distinction is made or even suggested between one kind of sin and another, or between one class of sinners and all the rest: Christ simply says "whose sins". The sentence pronounced by the Apostles (remission or retention) is also God's sentence -- "they are forgiven . . . they are retained". It is therefore clear from the words of Christ that the Apostles had power to forgive sins. But this was not a personal prerogative that was to erase at their death; it was granted to them in their official capacity and hence as a permanent institution in the Church -- no less permanent than the mission to teach and baptize all nations. Christ foresaw that even those who received faith and baptism, whether during the lifetime of the Apostles or later, would fall into sin and therefore would need forgiveness in order to be saved. He must, then, have intended that the power to forgive should be transmitted from the Apostles to their successors and be used as long as there would be sinners in the Church, and that means to the end of time. It is true that in baptism also sins are forgiven, but this does not warrant the view that the power to forgive is simply the power to baptize. In the first place, as appears from the texts cited above, the power to forgive is also the power to retain; its exercise involves a judicial action. But no such action is implied in the commission to baptize (Matt., xxviii, 18-20); in fact, as the Council of Trent affirms, the Church does not pass judgment on those who are not yet members of the Church, and membership is obtained through baptism. Furthermore, baptism, because it is a new birth, cannot be repeated, whereas the power to forgive sins (penance) is to be used as often as the sinner may need it. Hence the condemnation, by the same Council, of any one "who, confounding the sacraments, should say that baptism itself is the Sacrament of Penance, as though these two sacraments were not distinct and as though penance were not rightly called the second plank after shipwreck" (Sess. XIV, can. 2 de sac. poen.). These pronouncements were directed against the Protestant teaching which held that penance was merely a sort of repeated baptism; and as baptism effected no real forgiveness of sin but only an external covering over of sin through faith alone, the same, it was alleged, must be the case with penance. This, then, as a sacrament is superfluous; absolution is only a declaration that sin is forgiven through faith, and satisfaction is needless because Christ has satisfied once for all men. This was the first sweeping and radical denial of the Sacrament of Penance. Some of the earlier sects had claimed that only priests in the state of grace could validly absolve, but they had not denied the existence of the power to forgive. During all the preceding centuries, Catholic belief in this power had been so clear and strong that in order to set it aside Protestantism was obliged to strike at the very constitution of the Church and reject the whole content of Tradition. I hope this is all clear now... MANY THANKS TO THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA OF NEW ADVENT FOR MANY OF THE LINES ABOVE!!!! |
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Unicorn |
Re: The rubbish that is "the Nazi Pope" | #15 | ||
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This thread caught my eye ... just to add to the posts in defense of Il Papa, I would like to add some facts about Nazism, and the Hitler Youth, in the context of the "enrolment" of Joseph Ratzinger the Younger in the Hitler Youth.
The Hitler Youth, created in the 1930s, rose to prominence in December 1936, when Adolf Hitler declared that "All of the German youth in the Reich is organized within the Hitler Youth." In March of 1939, as William Shirer tells us in his book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" (p. 351), "the government issued a law conscripting all youth into the Hitler Youth on the same basis as they were drafted into the Army. Recalcitrant parents were warned that their children would be taken away from them and put into orphanages or other homes unless they enrolled." Il Papa is quite right when he refers to Nazism as "an insane racist ideology, born of neo-paganism". Few may remember this, but the extermination of the Jews was not the only inhuman goal of the Nazis. As Shirer tells us (p. 332), "the Nazi regime intended eventually to destroy Christianity in Germany, if it could, and substitute the old paganism of the early tribal Germanic gods and the new paganism of the Nazi extremists. As [Martin] Bormann, one of the men closest to Hitler, said publicly in 1941, 'National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable.'" In 1941, Joseph Ratzinger the Younger was a 14-year old seminarian who was forced -- as were thousands of other young Germans -- by this law to enroll in the Hitler Youth. However, he never attended a single Hitler Youth meeting; he adamantly refused to do so, despite the fact that such attendance had to be recorded in the Hitler Youth Group attendance logs. By the grace of God, he was spared from the consequences of such refusal by a compassionate teacher who agreed to sign his papers even if he did not attend. Under the circumstances, I do not blame his parents for "allowing" his enrolment. The family had already moved several times because Joseph Ratzinger the Elder -- an avowed Catholic, together with all of his family -- was an anti-Nazi of the first order, and he knew that the entire family was at risk. By 1941, there may well have been no other place that would be a haven from the Nazi insanity -- and so, Joseph and Maria Ratzinger had only two choices. First, refuse to enroll their son in the Hitler Youth and have him taken away to an unknown orphanage where he would almost certainly have been mentally, emotionally and physically abused for holding on to his beliefs, or worse, completely corrupted. Or second, allow him to be enrolled nominally, but continue to strengthen his Catholic faith, explain to him the evils of the Nazi regime, and give him the courage to stand up to the monsters. It is clear that they chose the latter -- to this day, Pope Benedict XVI makes no bones about his utter loathing of Nazism. Many have spoken of his desertion from the Reich Army as a great danger to his life, but in truth, he already placed his life on the line sometime earlier. There is another well-recorded incident of a time when, during the basic military training that he had to undergo with a group of young teenage boys, he openly declared to an SS soldier that he was going to be a priest. The soldier, who as I recall was attempting to recruit the boys permanently into the Reich Army, ridiculed him, but fortunately, let him go ... people may not realize it, but if that SS soldier had been just a tad more fanatical, there would be no stopping him from pulling young Joseph Ratzinger out of the group and throwing hm into prison -- or worse, one of the concentration camps -- for having dared to openly declare his intention to become a priest. The world knows all about the unspeakable suffering of the Jews, which is truly one of the most terrible of all human memories. But even the Christian Churches, and certainly the Catholic Church, suffered under the Nazi regime. Thousands of Polish priests and religious, and Catholic intellectuals, disappeared into the concentration camps, and even in Nazi Germany, priests, pastors, ministers and religious began to "disappear" -- one need only remember the Protestant pastor Dietrich Boenhoffer, who lost his life during the war years. Anyone who has any doubt as to whether Joseph Ratzinger the Younger really did refuse to support the Nazis -- or even had the courage to stand up to them -- should remember that little incident with the SS soldier. A man of lesser faith and courage would have complied with the soldier's demands and kept quiet about his intention to become a priest, given the way the Nazis were treating seminarians and priests; he could have spared himself the insults, and the very real threat of possible arrest and imprisonment. But he chose to take a stand, declare his faith, and proclaim his calling. I don't see the "Nazi Pope" .. do you? "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI
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galantarie |
And from the other Side of the Globe! | #16 | ||
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Here is some real sick Ultra-Trad "Sede" TRASH on our Papa!!!
The Trads Twisted Hate of Our Papa You must see this to understand the hate and the Satanic Line! ![]() May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world!
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Unicorn |
Re: And from the other Side of the Globe! | #17 | ||
Quote: To be honest, Galantarie, I couldn't read past the first ten paragraphs ... it was all incredibly crazy! But you know, I'll never understand how some people can hate Il Papa and John Paul the Beloved so terribly, just because they have such great compassion for the Jewish people. When will they understand that we are all children of God? I'll never understand them ... never. "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI
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NanMn |
Re: And from the other Side of the Globe! | #18 | ||
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Unicorn and Christella,
I tried to read the article on the link... sick. The author is so far off base but is too blind and/or stuborn to see it. I try to feel pitty for people like that, "Amazing Grace - I once was lost but know am found. Was blind but now I see"... but to attack Papa and JP2 like that! The only words that echoed in my brain as I was reading it were, "The darkness shall rage against the light, but the darkness shall not prevail". We can take comfort in the fact that God is in total controll. The Holy Trinity, Our Lady and St. Joseph are holding our beloved Papa in their protective hands. He is so full of the love of God that he is like the warming flames in the fireplace for Catholics everywhere who are willing to listen. He is like a lighthouse by a very stormy sea for those Christians who are looking for the fullness of the truth and don't know where to look. God knows the truth, and that is good enough for me. Love, Peace and Joy, always ~ Nan |
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galantarie |
Re: And from the other Side of the Globe! | #19 | ||
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Here is a link to the website of their Movement's sickness:
"Christian" revisionisthistory.org remember these Ultra-Trads or "Sedes" reject everything post 1966 and seek the Fall of Rome. Papa has asked for special prayers to counter their movement, as it is obviously Satanic. He is presently in training young exorcist-Priests for this. "Pope Encourages Exorcists in Their Ministry" VATICAN CITY, SEPT. 14, 2005 - Benedict XVI greeted a group of exorcists and encouraged them in their ministry. At the end of today's general audience, attended by some 20,000 people, the Pope addressed a few words "to the participants in national congress of Italian exorcists and encouraged them to continue in their important ministry at the service of the Church, supported by the solicitous care of their bishops and the incessant prayer of the Christian community." Italian exorcists constitute the greater part of the members of the International Association of Exorcists. Next month will see the start of a course on "Exorcism and Prayer of Deliverance" imparted by the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University together with the Socio-religious Research and Information Group (GRIS) for priests worldwide. An exorcist is a bishop, or priest designated by a bishop, who by the command of Christ and in the name of God recites a prayer for the deliverance of a person possessed by Satan or under demonic influence. May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world!
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Unicorn |
Re: Whaaaa ???? | #20 | ||
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Caramba!!!
I had to log on again just to get this off my chest ... What is it with some people? First, we got a bunch of crazies who say that Il Papa is evil and hates Jews because he was a "Nazi". Now we have another bunch of crazies who say he's evil and betrayed the Church because he is compassionate toward the Jews! And they even dare to drag John Paul the Beloved into this craziness! Hmph ... EDIT: Please forgive my anger ... why can't people ever stop and think about how absurd their charges are against Il Papa? Why? What has this wonderful, beloved man ever done to them? "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI
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