What about Christian rock music?
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ellen325 |
Rock music |
Lead | ||
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Joseph Ratzinger described it as a "vehicle of anti-religion". What do you think about it? Is it really devil's music? What does it mean?
What about Christian rock music? |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Rock music | #1 | ||
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Ellen, this is an interesting question. I am a musician but have never made an in-depth study of the rock music-issue. Perhaps someone else is well-informed and could answer with more authority.
I can only speak from a stance of personal preference and with regard to your question: "What about Christian rock music?". I do not like Christian rock at all and especially when it appears in the liturgy I, and hundreds of thousands of other believers, become almost physical sick. This is the very last place where one should encounter rock music. I suggest you order Ratzinger's books on the liturgy and the role of music and art in worship. If you haven't studied it yet, it will open your eyes and you will intuitively and rationally become convinced that rock music has NO place in the liturgy. One can even go so far as to say that it should not even be a genre outside of the liturgy, although I realise some philosophers of religion and culture may disagree somewhat with this statement. But perhaps you agree with me (and the Pope!) already and are asking these questions on behalf of others? |
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ellen325 |
Re: Rock music | #2 | ||
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I wanna know what people think about describing rock music as the devil's music, and how do they interpret Ratzinger's words.
I've read somewhere that John Paul II gave his blessing to a Christian rock band in Poland. I've also seen festivals where young people had fun dancing and jumping to Christian rock. The music was energetic and powerful, the lyrics were full of love and about Jesus Christ. So... Rock music = devil's music ? |
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galantarie |
Re: Rock music | #3 | ||
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Ellen,
"Rock" for entertainment...O.K. if it fits your temperament; but it is not fit for the austere, sacred nature of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. We do not go to the Mass, or attend the "Liturgy of the Hours" to get super-hyped. Nor is the Mass a "show" or "performance". It is not a matter of "liking"...but more of reverence and acceptance of God's will. Please, read it all at: on the Subject of Music "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] ![]() May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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galantarie |
Meeting with Jagar | #4 | ||
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Ellen,
Somewhere, on this Forum, you can read of the inspirational meeting between Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and Mick Jagar of the Rolling Stones. Papa had recognized him immediatley....if I recall it was at a Cathedral in Spain. Papa told him to keep a proper perspective; and he will not only be successful with the pop audiences, but with God. Jagar highly respects Our Papa as well. Our Holy Father is not totally against Rock; even if he does not get a thrill from listening to it (and I can understand this well). It is not that groups and artists like Malmsteem, Dio, Martin,or Bruce Dickenson do not have artistic benefits...It is that their contributions do not fall in the Sacred Liturgical realm....They are just not Palestrina or Heinrich Schtz. They would not be able to compose successfully for the Mass like a Fr. Andr Campr or Fr. Sabastien de Brossard did. You CANNOT incorporate it successfully to be part of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass! |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Rock | #5 | ||
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Ellen, I don't think the Holy Father intimated that rock music is from the devil, as if the "devil" is the author of rock..... His calling it "anti-religion" is a nuanced statement that will become clear if you study his writings. I don't want to go into this the day before Christmas.
Every art form has a history and a sociological impact. Music is not something in a vacuum. Here are two links that can be read. Draw your own conclusions. The first is obviously a site with strong Christian background, perhaps even fundamentalist. But just look at the facts. www.av1611.org/rockdead.html The second from Wikipedia focuses on the social aspects. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_impact_of_rock_and_roll |
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ellen325 |
Re: Meeting with Jagar | #6 | ||
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Papa gave him a good advice. I think Mick truly needed it...
It's not about rock music for the Mass. It's not a place for that kind of music. In church you need a little bit of peace to contemplate. It's about the so called satanic music. Some bands have satanic messages in their music, also when you listen to it backwards. The Devil inside? Do they really worship the prince of darkness? Or ist it only a commercial? Or is it Satan talking through them? I think people are smart enough and can decide what's good for them and be responsible for everything they do. |
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ellen325 |
Re: Rock | #7 | ||
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Dear mag6nideum!
I haven't read Ratzinger's writings, but maybe I will Oh, and thank you for the links. |
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galantarie |
Re: Rock | #8 | ||
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Ellen,
In reading "A new Song for the Lord", Papa definitely says on certain occasions it IS influenced by Satan. He has been highly criticized by this statement; but his arguments are more than persuasive. When you read what Papa has to say, you will know it has the love of Christ as well as the "ring of truth" to it.... That book is one of the best to be read on the subject. And although the book is basicly on the Liturgy and it origins and use, it is an exceptionally good read. So, please read it all. It is not very long, and you will be happy you did. As I said, if you go to the forum website I suggested, this is well discussed already...and you will find the discussion quite useful. Merry Christmas. "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] ![]() May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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ellen325 |
Re: Rock | #9 | ||
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Thank you , galantarie.
Merry Christmas! |
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mag6nideum |
Re: Rock | #10 | ||
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Ellen, hello again. I said I don't want to go into rock ( in detail) the day before Christmas, not because I am afraid (of what?) but because I don't have the time now - last minute things to do before tonight and tomorrow.
Hope you have a blessed Christmas. |
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ellen325 |
Re: Rock | #11 | ||
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OK.
Some people don't understand my jokes, so sorry for misunderstanding. |
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galantarie |
Re: Rock | #12 | ||
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Ellen,
I also am leaving for the holidays, right after this short comment: Papa explains that the rhythms and atmosphere in most rock-fests lead to a hyper-hypnotizing state...just waiting for Satan to enter (because one is no longer alert). You will enjoy the truths Papa reveals; and his deep understanding of music (as well as the effect it can have).... Please, all Merry Christmas; and I'll get back to you late Christmas Day, Love, Christella "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] ![]() May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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GREENJAK |
Re: Rock | #13 | ||
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hope you folks don't mind a late and (as a non-believer) kind of hypothetical contribution to this interesting thread.
I think any "satanic" links to rock music are more likely to manifest in the words rather than the style (i.e. rock) of the music. As someone has suggested christian rock groups would hardly consider themselves satanic. However the roots of rock (i.e. blues) certainly have links with artists who claim a "satanic" influence. A good example is Robert Johnson who claimed to have made a pact with the devil to aquire his musical skills. He has been very influential for many rock bands such as the rolling stones. Another interesting fact though is that other musical styles also evolved from blues, for example blue beat (better known as Jamaican Ska), and many of these artists have leaning towards christianity. I suspect though for many rock bands and their fans, it is the shock aspect of suggesting satanism that appeals or it is just fasionable. Most people grow out of it eventually and just see music as a form of entertainment. Well that's enough of my rambling Cheers
GJ |
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galantarie |
Re: Rock | #14 | ||
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"GREENJAK" please reread the first chapter of J.R.R.Tolkien's "The Simarilion", wherein is spoken of the music of the Ainar.
After reading it again...as I hope you have read this before, tell me if you still think it is just "words"...and not the music and rhythms themseves. ![]() Kardinal Ratzinger really knew what he was talking about in 1988: True, even good classical music can incorporate discordiances and atonality; but it goes further. Rock music creates an atmosphere condusive to mass-dream states which many protestant churches have taken use-of, unfortunately; and they in turn are influencing many so-called "progressive" Catholic parishes...ugh1... There need not be any lyrics at all: Certain elements do not mix well with the Roman Catholic rite; and even outside of the Liturgy, rock-fests do generate a "dark" atmosphere...which might be hidden in the massed-crowds/"concerts" so loved by the media and "modern" society! [reminds me of Imperial Rome!] I cannot help but think of a very famous Brazilian Death Industrial Metal group, "Pantera", whose Satanic-motives are anything but hidden....But the "revolutionary" youth who listen, attend, support and buy all this, really do not care; as they are more interested in group power and a sense of belonging to a universal-movement. Would you really want "Pantera" to play at the stadium Our Holy Father will speak-at and hold Mass in, next week??? or how about this?: ![]() "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] ![]() May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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GREENJAK |
Re: Rock | #15 | ||
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Hello Gal'
Yes, a big fan of Tolkien, and I understand what you mean by Melkor's discordiant compositions. However, I doubt Tolkien had rock music in mind when he wrote his fiction. The style wasn't around of course. I think it demonstrates that any style of music can be made to sound "dark" without labelling one particular style as such. Examples that spring to mind are the music soundtrack to the film "The Omen", almost gregorian in style; Anthony Burgess chose classical as the music of choice for his violent "A Clockwork Orange". The film of Whitley Streibers "The Hunger" features classicals like Delibes "flower duet" in this dark vampire tale. But I agree, Pantera would hardly be a choice for a christian establishment . Cheers
GJ |
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galantarie |
Re: Rock | #16 | ||
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What warped sense of Christianity is this?:
![]() Look at some of the titles therein: 1. Where Is Your God Now? 2. Icons Of Evil 3. Scorned 4. Born To Rape The World! 5. Reborn ... The Upheaval Of Nihility 6. Hammer Down The Nails 7. Shrapnel Embedded Flesh 8. 'Till Death 9. In Infamy 10. Disciples Of Hell ______________________________ How about this, a bit more subtler?: ![]() "I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] ![]() May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
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