![]() |
|
|
Welcome to The Pope Benedict XVI Forum
The Pope Benedict XVI Fan Club invites your participation in our open, yet civil and (hopefully) respectful discussion of topics by and about Pope Benedict XVI and general issues in Catholic faith & theology. Members, please acquaint yourself with our FORUM RULES -- failure to abide by the rules will result in warnings from the moderator and possible expulsion by the management. |
| Author | Comment | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Tridentinum |
The Communion at the Corpus Christi Mass in Rome | #981 | ||
|
|
||||
|
|
||||
letmel |
Tiara versus Mitra | #982 | ||
|
Benodette wrote:
Tridentinum - now I am more confused than ever. Are you saying that Archbishop Piero Marini was responsible for the design of the Pope's Coat of Arms and that he and Cardinal Montezemolo released their design to the press without the Pope's approval? Why did the Pope allow that and why were they not dismissed or disciplined? It seems a pretty serious breach of confidence. Why did the Pope make Montezemolo a cardinal and keep Piero Marini in place for almost three years? I am afraid I would not have been that charitable. That is exactly what Tridentinum is saying ! I am truly amazed how anyone can come to the forum and make such a ridiculous accusation and get away with it... I am very confused as well, obviously. |
||||
|
|
||||
letmel |
The Communion at the Corpus Christi Mass | #983 | ||
|
Yes Tridentinum , we saw the change . I myself love it . But.... are yoou trying to say something with those pictures ?
|
||||
|
|
||||
rcesq |
Rules of Engagement | #984 | ||
|
Before we wander off further into discussions about what we can see, hear or read (and is therefore known) and what we cannot or have not seen, heard or read
(and is therefore subject to logical inference, informed speculation, or simple guesswork and imagination), let's be clear that we are not engaged in
arguments that consist of accusation or counter-accusation. Tridentinum is answering questions posed to him based on some sources of
information most of us do not share. I believe we owe Tridentinum the courtesy of taking the information he provides at face value and not try
to read "accusations" into them.
In the hectic days after the death of Pope John Paul II, I'm sure many things were happening that stressed to the limit everyone who was working on the transition to a new papacy. Occurrences such as releasing information (important and not so important) without getting a final imprimatur are, under those circumstances, entirely possible. So if the story is floating around Rome that a premature release happened in connection with the papal coat of arms, I do not see why it should be a cause for Pope Benedict to have a conniption fit and fire everyone involved on the spot. He had far more important matters to attend to, I'm sure. It's true that one could spin such a story to suggest that it's an example of underhanded Curial infighting and undermining of the Pope. Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. Until Pope Benedict XVI writes a biography of his papacy we will never know for certain. All we know for certain now is that the Pope has a new MC and that changes in papal ceremonials can be seen. These changes, if one must characterize them, tend to be changes towards the more ornamental, antique, traditional side of the spectrum than towards the stripped-down, modern, liberal-progressive end of the spectrum. In other words, we're seeing rococco and not rock-n-roll. Figurative instead of abstract. Ornate rather than plain. Kneeling and receiving communion on the tongue instead of standing and receiving communion in the hand.
(AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito) Pope Benedict at Funeral Mass for Cardinal Gantin I think it's entirely legitimate to debate your preferences and give reasons. It's also entirely legitimate to suggest that, according to your views of liturgical meaning and historical development and Church teaching and Catholic culture etc., etc., you believe one choice is better, more correct, more in keeping with the values you espouse, than the other. Thus, if you want to come right out and say that you like the way Archbishop Marini did something or other more than the way the current Monsignor Guido Marini is doing it, you're entitled to say so, and vice versa. If you wish to embellish your opinion with strong language, I would suggest that you think before you post how you would feel if you knew that Pope Benedict or the people you are writing about were to read what you write. If you're comfortable with what you've said, go ahead and post. If you're in doubt, don't post. In other words, don't say here what you wouldn't say to someone's face. So, to come to the point, I don't think, Letmel, that Tridentinum was making "a ridiculous accusation." He was repeating something he was told by someone he apparently believes to be a credible source. And that information may give rise to some questions, but I don't think it's appropriate without more evidence to ascribe any kind of ulterior motive to the information Tridentinum is so kind as to share with us. The communion pictures he posted, for example, are lovely, especially the one of the little girl. They remind me of my youth when everyone took communion in this way. Personally, I wish we would go back to that manner of receiving the body of Christ. Efficiency of distribution and speed seem to me entirely irrelevant considerations when you think about what the act of taking communion really means. I suspect that if you were to poll the average parish on a Sunday about the significance of communion you'd be surprised at how few recognize it as a momentous encounter with God Himself rather than just the sharing of a "eucharistic meal" with their fellow parishioners. --------------------------------------- Update: In today's Zenit, the following tantalizing titbit from Cardinal Montezemolo: . . . Cardinal Andrea Cordero Lanza di Montezemolo, archpriest of the Basilica of St. Paul Outside the Walls, recalled how the Pope, two days after his election, called him urgently to ask help with the design of the papal coat of arms. The Italian prelate is an expert in ecclesiastic heraldry.Now I wonder if anyone at the press conference asked the Cardinal our questions!
Last Edited By: rcesq 05/23/08 17:13:36.
Edited 2 times.
|
||||
|
|
||||
rcesq |
More on Communion in the Hand at Papal Ceremonies | #985 | ||
By Cindy WoodenVatican: Receiving Eucharist kneeling may not be permanent change "some reverently extend cradled hands to receive the Eucharist" I wish journalists would refrain from slipping their personal opinions into what purport to be factual reports. The word "reverently" here is definitely editorializing by Cindy Wooden because we don't know how reverent anyone is when receiving communion, whether it's in the hand or on the tongue. You can be woolgathering and composing the next menu for your dinner or thinking about the latest basketball scores or contemplating the five wounds of Christ no matter which posture you adopt. However, I think it looks more reverent to kneel, to make yourself small and helpless when approaching the Lord. |
||||
|
|
||||
Budwud |
Papal Coat of Arms, etc. | #986 | ||
|
It never ceases to amaze me how rumours, gossip, hearsay, etc, take on a life of their own. It seems that on the Internet anyone can find something written
somewhere to use as proof for whatever ideology he or she supports. Don't like the words coming from an official in the Vatican who just might actually
know what he is talking about? Fine, go to any of a number of Catholic [and I really hesitate to even use that description when it comes to the comments on
some of them] blogs and one is sure to find grist for the mill to satisfy one's own conceptions or misconceptions. Whatever the case may be! I remember
when Pope Benedict was elected that there were many news stories and comments on his coat of arms. I do not recall anyone at that time questioning whether or
not it was his decision or that a "palace coup" had taken place. It's strange that these rumours seem to have surfaced only in the past few
months. Tridentinum, I'm not referring to you. I appreciate the information you have shared with us on this forum. Rather I am referring
to the more traditional blogs where fact is sometimes considered a trivial matter.
Now I wonder if anyone at the press conference asked the Cardinal our questions!Form CNS, April 27, 2005. The details of the new papal blazon were published in the April 28 edition of the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano. A copy was released April 27 to journalists.http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0502625.htm Another interesting news story on the pallium from June 2006 http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0502625.htm I suspect that if you were to poll the average parish on a Sunday about the significance of communion you'd be surprised at how few recognize it as a momentous encounter with God Himself rather than just the sharing of a "eucharistic meal" with their fellow parishionersrcesq. With all due respect, you appear to have a very jaded view of the many Catholics who are not Traditionalists. Yes, I use a capital T purposely. I consider myself a traditionalist but since I do like the Novus Ordo Mass and in the vernacular as well, I guess I wouldn't pass muster with the capital T Catholics! We recently had a week long parish retreat where the pews were filled each evening and right at the beginning were given a question sheet asking among other things, our understanding of the Eucharist. These sheets were answered and handed back and at the end of the week, the retreat master discussed the answers he had received. Guess what? Almost ninety percent said that when they received Holy Communion they did understand it as an encounter with God Himself. That they were truly receiving the Body and Blood of Christ. What the rest said, I don't know but "sharing a meal" was not discussed. Actually, I'd never heard anyone refer to Communion that way until I joined this forum. Perhaps I lead a sheltered life? I've asked many other Catholic friends and family members about this idea of sharing a meal and they all have looked at me like I was crazy. I am not saying that there aren't lots of people who believe as you say but I do think it is unfair to make such a sweeping statement. . |
||||
|
|
||||
PaxTibi |
#987 | |||
Tridentinum is answering questions posed to him based on some sources of information most of us do not share. I believe we owe Tridentinum the courtesy of taking the information he provides at face value and not try to read "accusations" into them.And this, rcesq, is something about which I have grave misgivings. Should Signore Siffi, as the person who designs vestments for the Pope, be divulging this information in such an indiscreet manner, particularly if it is based on hearsay? Unless something comes directly from the Holy Father himself, or someone very close to him like Monsignor Gaenswein, I think it should be taken with a pinch of salt. The fact of the matter is that this information, true or not, does a great disservice both to Cardinal Montezemolo and the Holy Father himself. I for one have great difficulty in believing that His Holiness would have let something like this slide based solely on 'politesse'. The papal coat of arms and what it respresents is no small matter and whilst I agree with you that it would not have merited firing anyone, I do feel that it would most certainly have been corrected. As is well documented, the Holy Father, both now and throughout his life has always been meticulous in everything that he does and, if something is important, he has never let himself be deterred by niceties. Or are reports of his meticulousness also a rumour? Are we then to believe that he would have ignored something like this simply for the sake of being courteous? For my own part, I think there is indeed a high likelihood that what has been presented to us is nothing more than unpleasant gossip and that Signore Siffi, occupying the position that he does, should know better than to relay it to us. "The truest beauty is the love of God, who definitively revealed himself to us in the paschal mystery." Sacramentum Caritatis, 35
Last Edited By: PaxTibi 05/24/08 00:05:55.
Edited 1 time.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Benodette |
Papal Coat of Arms | #988 | ||
|
Rcesq I disagree with you on this issue. If two senior clergy deliberately released the papal Coat of Arms of Benedict XVI without the
approval of the Pope, and with the intention of making a fundamental change which they knew would cause controversy, then that is a pretty serious allegation.
It would suggest a degree of insubordination which would hardly be supportable in any organisation.
I think Letmel has every right to show that she is shocked by such allegations. She said nothing about Guido Marini and his way of doing things. Her comment was clearly in response to the allegation that Archbishops Montezemolo and Marini had been engaged in a kind of "conspiracy" to get the tiara replaced with the mitre. It seems to me that her comments were within the "rules of engagement." Joseph Ratzinger would have known how the replacement of the tiara with the mitre would be received in certain quarters, so a change would hardly have been made lightly. Like Pax and Budwud I can hardly believe that he would have tolerated a change made without his consent. After all, there are ways of correcting press releases. I wonder if Cardinal Montezemolo and Archbishop Marini are aware that these things are being said about them. Do you really think there is any truth in these rumours Tridentinum? Is your use of the tiara in the Pope's Arms an attempt to "correct" the error? Tridentinum is correct in saying there are examples of the mitre appearing instead of the tiara before the election of Benedict XVI. By chance I walked over this one yesterday in the basilica.
© Benodette |
||||
|
|
||||
Tridentinum |
#989 | |||
|
Dear all,
I do not want to exceed the simple exchange of opinions. May I suggest to close that debate about Card. Montezemolo? You may imagine that my position doesn't allow to explain all my sources, and I probably told enough. Thanks a lot. |
||||
|
|
||||
rcesq |
Proof is in the pudding | #990 | ||
|
Everybody:
We know that Pope Benedict has worn vestments made by Tridentinum that depict his coat of arms surmounted by a tiara. We know that he's sat down on a throne which depicts his coat of arms surmounted by a tiara: Photo: Shouts in the Piazza Up to now anyway, it appears that no orders have been given to re-embroider the vestments or re-carve the throne. What are we to make of this conduct by the Pope? He didn't notice? He did, but he's too polite to say or do anything? It demonstrates a lack of meticulousness? Resigned acquiescence? Acknowledgment that it's not inappropriate to place his shield inside the official pontifical frame? Any other guesses? My own view is that this is all a tempest in a teapot and that sometimes the coat of arms will show up with a mitre and sometimes it won't and that both versions are OK -- perhaps yet other versions will be created and those are OK too, as long as the scallop, Moor and bear are in place. |
||||
|
|
||||
galantarie |
figurines of Our Papa!!! | #991 | ||
![]()
A man holds a plastic figure depicting Pope Benedict XVI at the 97th German
Katholikentag, or Catholic Church assembly, in Osnabrueck, northern Germany, on Friday, May 23, 2008. The figures are meant to be fixed in the car. The
traditional gathering of German Catholics that takes place every two years in different cities is expected to attract some 34,000 people.
"I have
a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use
it."
[Ratzinger:"Salt of the Earth"] ![]() May Our Papa's radiant-light continuously shine forth to illuminate Christ for the world! |
||||
|
|
||||
letmel |
Papal Coat of Arms | #992 | ||
|
Tridentinum, I apologize to you for expressing my opinion in a harsh way, and I thank you for your posts.
Rcesq, regarding your "rules of engagement". Some folks have already given you answers which express very much the way I view this issue so with your permission ladies , I'll use some of your sentences.
From Budwud: "It never ceases to amaze me how rumours, gossip, hearsay, etc, take on a life of their own".
"With all due respect, you appear to have a very jaded view of the many Catholics who are not Traditionalists. Yes, I use a capital T purposely. I consider myself a traditionalist but since I do like the Novus Ordo Mass and in the vernacular as well, I guess I wouldn't pass muster with the capital T Catholics!"
From Pax Tibi: "And this, Rcesq is something about which I have misgivings. Should anyone who designs vestments for the Pope, be divulging this information, particularly if is based on hearsay? Unless something comes directly from the Holy Father himself or someone very close to him, I think it should be taken with a pinch of salt.
From Benodette: "I disagree with you on this issue Rcesq. If two senior clergy deliberately released the papal Coat of Arms of Benedict XVI without the approval of the Pope, and with the intention of making a fundamental change which they knew would cause controversy, then is a pretty serious allegation. It would suggest a degree of insubordination which would be hardly supportable in any organisation. I think Letmel has every right to show that she is shocked by such allegations. She said nothing about Guido Marini and his way of doing things. Her comment was clearly in response to the allegation that Archbishops Montezemolo and Marini had been engaged in a kind of"conspiracy" to get the tiara replaced with the mitre. It seems to me that her comments were within the "rules of engagement"
you Rcesq write :
"All we know for certain now is that the Pope has a new MC and that changes in papal ceremonials can be seen". ----- Certainly there is a new MC! Changes? Not really, only in , as you say: "towards the more ornamental, antique, traditional side of the spectrum" Some of them, a disaster in my humble opinion (IMHO), I must add. "than towards the stripped-down, modern, liberal-progressive end of the spectrum" Most of those which you call liberal-progressive were very elegant and dignify, IMHO. "In other words, we're seeing rococco and not rock-n-roll". I've never seen rock-n-roll.... and rococco? Not my cup of tea for sure.
"Figurative instead of abstract. Ornate rather than plain" Too much "ornate" is not beautiful at all . It could be actually "ugly". Abstract?? Which abstract are you trying to talk about?
"Kneeling and receiving communion on the tongue instead of standing and receiving communion in the hand". This is the first time I see it, and I love it indeed. I've been receiving Holy Communion on the tongue and kneeling or doing a genuflection for all my life in an act of reverence and adoration to Jesus humbly coming to us . I love Jesus in the Most Holy Eucharist with all my heart and if you can teach me how to love Him more , I will be delighted to listen to you. .
|
||||
|
|
||||
rcesq |
Belief in Real Presence | #993 | ||
With all due respect, you appear to have a very jaded view of the many Catholics who are not Traditionalists. Budwud:
In general, my views are informed by some reading in the Catholic press, discussions with fellow parishioners and members of Church organizations to which I belong, and my work for the archdiocese. On the subject of the lack of belief in the Real Presence, I am not alone. Indeed, the matter came to be of sufficient concern in the United States that in June 2001, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a fairly lengthy and detailed Q&A on the topic, http://www.usccb.org/dpp/realpresence.htm Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist: Basic Questions and Answers. The second question the bishops address is: "Why is the Eucharist not only a meal but also a sacrifice?" I submit that this question would not have to have been addressed if it hadn't come up as an issue. Fortunately, Budwud, you might be more correct than I am when it comes to the beliefs of the truly devout, weekly Mass-attending parishioner such as those who attended your week-long parish retreat. A February 2008 Survey by the Georgetown University Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA),[link=http://cara.georgetown.edu/sacraments.html]"Sacraments Today"[/link] reports these statistics on the issue of "Eucharist and Belief in the Real Presence." Nine in ten weekly Mass attendees (91 percent) say they believe that Jesus Christ is really present in the Eucharist, compared to two-thirds of those who attend Mass less than weekly but at least once a month (65 percent), and four in ten of those attending Mass a few times a year or less (40 percent). Among Catholics attending Mass at least once a month, the youngest generation of Catholics (born after 1981) has similar beliefs about the Eucharist as Pre-Vatican II Generation Catholics (born before 1943). Going by these survey results, I overstated it when declaring that "few" people in the pews believed in the Real Presence. But - not to quibble endlessly, but just to make a note - I think you must agree that among those who do not attend Mass weekly, belief in the Real Presence tapers off rather dramatically, especially among Chreasters (Christmas and Easter attendance only).
Last Edited By: rcesq 05/26/08 17:10:26.
Edited 3 times.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Unicorn |
Papal Coat-of-Arms | #994 | ||
Rcesq, I must disagree.
I have had the - well, in some ways, the misfortune - of working in a large and very complex organization where, unfortunately, politics can be considered an ever-present entity. In this regard, the release of information, and most especially information concerning the decisions and policies of the highest-ranking officials in the organization, is given very careful consideration. This is so because, as I'm sure you understand, the "premature" release of information can lead to some very unpleasant consequences and implications, none of which should be considered as a "tempest in a teapot".
In the case of the supposed release of the design, the immediate consequences of these "reports" that Cardinal Montezemolo - and supposedly with the complicity of Arch. Piero Marini - released the information to the press implies the following:
1. That both prelates did not respect the Pope enough to get his imprimatur before they released information about something that is virtually as personal to him as his Papal name; 2.
That the Pope ostensibly allowed himself to be "backed into a corner", so to speak, into
accepting the design; why else would it be used for at least two and a half years?
I'm sure you'll agree that neither implication is a savory one.
Now, and I address my comments from this point onward to everyone, if we are suppose that the Pope was "backed into a corner", how are we to view the events that are happening now, and by events, I mean the use of the tiara in vestments that are prepared by a certain supplier, and yes, reports that have "surfaced" that the release of the design (and by implication, the design itself) was not sanctioned by the Pope? Is this some kind of "damage control"? If so, it is a rather clumsy attempt, if I might say so.
If we are to presume that the use of the tiara is to "correct an error", I agree with Benodette that there are better ways to do so - and dare I say it, more "straightforward" ways. It is one thing to presume that the use of the tiara in Benedict XVI's coat-of-arms is being done with his approval, it is another to have him say publicly that there was a "hiccup" in the release of the official design. For a man who has adopted the motto "Co-Worker of the Truth", certainly Joseph Ratzinger would wish to uphold the truth in this particular instance, especially since one of the implications of this turn of events is that he was "compelled" to accept a decision made by others. In so doing, however, I do not believe that he would countenance actions that amount to a virtual "smear campaign" against a man he himself elevated to the College of Cardinals and the Archbishop who served him as Master of Ceremonies for more than a quarter century.
Budwud is quite right in observing that during the first few months of Benedict XVI's papacy, while there were comments about the use of the mitre as opposed to the tiara, there was never any mention of supposed "information leaks". One has to wonder why all this is coming out now, and for what purpose? If there had been a "leak", it should have been corrected long ago - and neither Cardinal Montezemolo nor Arch. Marini would be where they are now. Why did we hear nothing of these reports when Cardinal Montezemolo was elevated to the College of Cardinals? Why was nothing ever said along these lines when Piero Marini was made Head of a Pontifical Committee? PaxTibi is right in saying that neither of them would have been fired, but in my opinion, both of them would certainly not have been given the positions they now occupy. After all, there is nothing insignificant about being raised to the College of Cardinals (Montezemolo), or being appointed as head of a Pontifical Commission (Marini) that has considerable international influence over the celebration of the Eucharist itself.
The individuals who are imputing such disobedience and disrespect - and yes, insubordination, as Benodette has aptly described it - on the part of Cardinal Montezemolo and Arch. Marini seem to have forgotten a number of important considerations. The first is that Cardinal Montezemolo, prior to his elevation to the College of Cardinals, spent many years as a career diplomat of the Holy See - and in the field of diplomacy, the implications of when - and whether - certainly information should be released is a matter that is accorded the utmost importance. I do not think that someone with such extensive experience in these matters as Andrea Cordero Lanza di Montezemolo would do something as indiscreet, and as disrespectful, as what certain quarters are alleging.
The second is that Arch. Marini was, prior to the election of Benedict XVI, already serving as Joseph Ratzinger's Master of Ceremonies during his years as a Cardinal; and since Cardinal Ratzinger came to Rome to serve John Paul as early as 1981, then it is clear that Joseph Ratzinger and Piero Marini have been working together for almost 27 years, prior to the advent of Guido Marini. I see no reason why we should not presume that in more than a quarter century, Piero Marini will not have gained a very extensive insight into Joseph Ratzinger's liturgical preferences; most assuredly, there developed a relationship of great respect and esteem - why else would Joseph Ratzinger have retained Piero Marini as his Master of Ceremonies for more than two decades, first as Cardinal and then as Pope? I cannot believe that Piero Marini would betray such trust, in such a rash and unseemly manner.
My question is this: why are certain quarters now making an attempt to imply that this coat-of-arms was not the decision of the Pope, and going to such considerable lengths to do so? Do they not agree with the ideals that are embodied in its design? Do they believe that he should have chosen differently?
Now, as regards the interchangeable use of the mitre and the tiara prior to the election of Benedict XVI - I must confess that I am
definitely not comfortable with the opinion of Fr. Guy Sylvester that the depiction of the Papal coat-of-arms is dependent upon the preferences of whichever
artist is executing it. I say this because I cannot help but think that the coat-of-arms is a very personal statement of the thought and
theology of a particular Pope - you change one element, it is as if you are changing something in the visual "mission and vision statement" (as
modern organizations put it) of the Pope. As I recall, there were comments when the letter "M" appeared in John Paul the
Beloved's coat-of-arms, the argument being that letters are not supposed to appear in heraldic coats-of-arms, never mind the fact that John Paul intended
it to honor the Mother of God herself, and his entrusting of his Papacy and himself to her prayers and protection. It's a good thing that in interchanging
the mitre and the tiara in some depictions of John Paul's coat-of-arms, the artist(s) responsible didn't decide to do away with the "M". But
never was it implied that anyone in the Holy See had taken the design of his coat-of-arms out of John Paul's hands.
I certainly cannot subscribe to Fr. Sylvester's statement that the coats-of-arms are not "slavishly copied over and over as if there is only one official version" - because there should definitely be only one official version. That's why it's called "official" in the first place - because it is supposed to be the definitive, sanctioned and authoritative version. The consistent use of the design of the coat-of-arms that has been specifically chosen by Benedict XVI is most definitely not an act of "slavish copying" - it is an act of respect for the decision of the Pope in a matter that will serve as the symbolic identification of his Papacy for all of history. Otherwise, why would a Pope go to the trouble of deciding on the elements of his coat-of-arms anyway, if different versions of it are going to be presented in accordance with the preferences of the artist who will execute it, or the sponsor of a vestment, chair or building to which it will be affixed? Why should their preferences take precedence over the preferences of the Pope? Is it so difficult to respect and honor and uphold the Pope's decision in this matter? Do they not trust his wisdom in making such a choice? Does anyone know better than the Pope himself, who has made the conscious decision to take on a responsibility that few men have the strength and the courage to shoulder, what he feels, in his heart of hearts, he must do for the Church, and how he wishes such ideals to be reflected in his coat-of-arms?
When all is said and done, I can only hope, as PaxTibi has said, that these "reports" are nothing more than gossip. That having been said, however, I know from unhappy experience that the reasons behind the existence of such gossip are far more disquieting than the gossip itself. Because when there are attempts such as these to besmirch the loyalty of a Prince of the Church, to continually harass a liturgical expert who has served two Popes with great devotion and commitment, and to give people the impression that the hand of the Pope himself can be forced by people around him, then I must say that I am very worried for Il Papa indeed. There can be no justification whatsoever for such attempts to besmirch the reputation of a Cardinal and an Archbishop, and to indirectly cast doubts on the capability of the Pope himself to make and implement his own decisions. Proud to be Papist! "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI "He knocks at the door, he is close to us and thus true joy is close, which is stronger than all the sorrows in the world, and in our life." - Benedict XVI |
||||
|
|
||||
Benodette |
Corpus Christi in Rome - 22 May 2008 | #995 | ||
|
The photographs of the people receiving communion from the Pope while kneeling are nice and the little girl looks angelic. Thanks Tridentinum
for posting them.
Once again though, this change (or innovation, or return to tradition, or whatever one calls it) was dropped in without warning, leaving the field open for speculation by journalists and bloggers. A well-placed statement in advance, that this was done specially for Corpus Christi, would have been sensible. Guido Marini's enigmatic "we'll see" when asked by CNS if it would be repeated can only add fuel to the fire of speculation. The problem with this "let's do it and perhaps explain later" approach is that nobody really knows where they stand or what path is being set out. Perhaps that is the reason for the heated discussions about the papal Coat of Arms. If some official explanation had been given for suddenly using the tiara on vestments made for a Pope who has chosen to have a mitre surmounting his Arms, there would be less confusion and no need for speculation. If kneeling to receive communion is to be a feature of Papal Masses, there may be a perception that people are kneeling because they are receiving Communion from the Pope, and that it is he who is the object of particular veneration. It is true that the kind of people who participate in forums like this one would not think so, but nevertheless it is a danger. Personally I have no objection to receiving communion kneeling - in fact in England this even happens in many Anglican services - but in some places it will come as a "culture shock" and I can foresee some bitter divisions unless there is proper preparation and clear information. I tend to agree with Rcesq that there is a substantial proportion of Catholics who do not grasp the doctrine of the Real Presence. The kind of people who would go to a retreat such as the one Budwud attended would, I think, be better informed than the average. That is not to say that most Catholics view the Eucharist as "a meal" but there is certainly need for more quality education.
For this ceremony the altar had reverted to the bunker arrangement. At both of the outdoor Masses in Liguria a more "open" altar arrangement was used.
Savona - Carlo Lorenzo ed Benodette
Genoa - Carlo Lorenzo ed Benodette There seems to be no consistency. I hope the "gap" is retained as it seems a reasonable compromise between erecting a barricade between the people and the celebrant and the clearer altar which has become the norm. The Pope wore his beautiful cream and gold birthday chasuble and mitre for the Mass - Tridentinum, is this one of yours?
Alessandra Benedetti The chair has the Arms of either John Paul I or John XXIII. The Lion of Venice is clearly visible but the rest of the shield is not so clear.
Alessandra Benedetti For the procession he wore the gold cope with antique edges and the gold and blue enamel clasp. Both have been used many times before.
Alessandra Benedetti I have posted more details and pictures of Corpus Christi in Rome on the Seeing Benedict thread. |
||||
|
|
||||
rcesq |
A More Benign Explanation | #996 | ||
| ||||