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Welcome to The Pope Benedict XVI Forum
The Pope Benedict XVI Fan Club invites your participation in our open, yet civil and (hopefully) respectful discussion of topics by and about Pope Benedict XVI and general issues in Catholic faith & theology. Members, please acquaint yourself with our FORUM RULES -- failure to abide by the rules will result in warnings from the moderator and possible expulsion by the management. |
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 Unicorn |
Thank you, Rcesq | #781 | ||
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Member
Posts: 1308 05/20/08 17:53:43 |
Rcesq, I am very grateful indeed for your post, and your apology is most heartily accepted. I am glad you understand.
May I therefore offer this quotation from the Sermon on the Mount, and the Beatitudes, which is very close to my heart:
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.
Proud to be Papist! "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI "He knocks at the door, he is close to us and thus true joy is close, which is stronger than all the sorrows in the world, and in our life." - Benedict XVI |
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ob2 |
#782 | |||
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Posts: 266 05/21/08 08:32:48 |
Speaking Of Apologies: This also applies to this overly stubborn, impulsive, heart-on her-sleeve-wearing bavarian woman. Sorry, Unicorn. No offense was meant at all!! Bigotry is a strong word, and possibly also used differntly in different cultures/languages. Even though the meaning might be the same, the 'ease' of using it, might varie from here to there. 
Again! I'm sorry, didn't mean to upset you! 
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Unicorn |
Thank you, Ob2 | #783 | ||
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Posts: 1312 05/21/08 17:23:04 |
Ob2, your apology is much appreciated. I am grateful that despite the sometimes passionate exchanges on the Forum, we
all make an effort to clarify issues, and therefore, to gain a better understanding of each other and of our respective cultures.
I have read quite a bit about the Bavarians' warmth of spirit, which I daresay burns with quiet intensity in Il Papa's phenomenal eyes. I hope one day to see Bavaria myself, and to experience the culture which shaped the life of our beloved Pope. Proud to be Papist! "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI "He knocks at the door, he is close to us and thus true joy is close, which is stronger than all the sorrows in the world, and in our life." - Benedict XVI |
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NewPerspective |
#784 | |||
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Posts: 6 05/29/08 09:05:24 |
All of this Sturm und Drang because the C&L sisters sat behind the Pope at a concert? For God's sake, some New Perspective is apparently needed. I
think the whole thing is charming, especially because the Pope obviously loves his Memores Domini sisters and wants them around him. They were appropriately
dressed, etc. I don't understand why they should have to hide away from the public gaze. Why shouldn't they enjoy a concert, as part of the Pope's
family?
God knows, Msgr. Gaenswein and Miss Stampa certainly got their 15 minutes of fame back in the day. |
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rcesq |
Gracious Gesture by Georg Gaenswein | #785 | ||
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Posts: 1580 05/31/08 04:34:54 Moderator |
Kirsty in the
German section of the forum posted this sweet story about Monsignor Georg Gaenswein; here's a translation:
By Andreas Englisch
I was
able to arrange a really special audience in the Vatican, and the memory is certainly one of the most beautiful gifts of my entire life.
Laughing, Georg Gaenswein answered: "No, he doesn't have one, but he uses mine now and then." Another child: "What does the Pope drink for breakfast?" "Very simple, the Holy Father doesn't like coffee; he drinks tea," said Georg Gaenswein. Then the children sang a few songs for Georg Gaenswein and proved that they could pray the Our Father flawlessly. Afterwards they were also able to visit the Swiss Guard arsenal. For the children this was the most
exciting religion class of their lives, and Georg Gaenswein said wistfully, "unfortunately, in my current post I can seldom perform such a genuine
pastoral task."
Last Edited By: rcesq 06/02/08 00:24:49.
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rcesq |
Brother Georg Visits Restored Marktl Am Inn Home | #786 | ||
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Posts: 1587 06/02/08 00:15:56 Moderator |
Photo: ddp It was
the first visit by the former Regensburg cathedral choir master since the opening of the exhibit of the life and work of
the Bavarian Pope.
The theological docent of the home, Ludwig Raischl, guided the Pope's brother together with Bishop Wilhelm Schraml from Passau through the exhibition rooms. Georg Ratzinger lived in the house as a boy from 1925 to 1929. The restoration of the building, which is a protected monument, tried to reconstruct its appearance in the year of Joseph Ratzinger's birth as much as possible.
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Benodette |
Brother Georg Visits Restored Marktl Am Inn Home | #787 | ||
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Posts: 5473 06/02/08 06:17:59 |
A nice story Rcesq. Thanks.
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Benodette |
The Vatican Pompadour | #788 | ||
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Posts: 5504 06/07/08 11:54:21 |
This rather nasty piece of gossip is from Spiegel online. I am rather surprised that
they dare label Professor Stampa the Madame de Pompadour of the Vatican - Pompadour, a courtesan, was the mistress of King Louis XV of France and I hope that
Alexander Smoltczyk is not implying that Ingrid Stampa has ever been Joseph Ratzinger's mistress. Peter Seewald certainly did her no favours by dubbing her
"the first lady of the Vatican."
The second most powerful German in the Vatican has to clear his room. It again raises the question of who has the final say in the papal apartment. On Wednesday "tout Vatican" were in the residence of the German ambassador to the Holy See to bid farewell with a glass of Prosecco to Mons Christoph Kuhn, director of German language section of the Holy See. Kuhn was, after the Pope, the highest ranking German in the curia and he was powerful. Some say too powerful. From his office in the third floor loggia in the Apostolic Palace he organised the Pope's contacts with Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Under another Pope this might have been a sinecure, but not under a German Pope. Now Kuhn has been sent to the Nunciature in Vienna, a place which had a certain importance only during the period of the Cold War. When the Secretary of State, Tarcisio Bertone, expressed his regret at Kuhn's departure in the reception, everybody knew that he was hardly sincere. "They fired him" someone said. The person responsible was no secret either - Madame de Pompadour of the Vatican, the confidante of the Pope, the Papessa. There is fierce competition to be the closest to the Pope. Who has his ear? Who is allowed to prepare cold dishes for him? Who watches TV with him and who plays the violin for him in the evening? A special rivalry has always existed between Kuhn and the Pope's private secretary, Georg Ganswein. Both have the reputation of being very conservative and intelligent. Both have hopes and ambitions of being promoted in the Vatican and with these common goals there is no room for friendship. But Kuhn and Ganswein were at least on speaking terms in these last days, possibly because of their common dislike of Ratzinger's former housekeeper Ingrid Stampa - a dislike which she passionately returns. It is said that Miss Stampa is an excellent [viola da] gamba player, and is known to move around Rome by bicycle, mostly in good spirits. After Joseph Ratzinger's election she went with him to the papal apartment, which caused foolish but inevitable rumours in the Curia. She has now moved to an apartment a few doors further away in the Via dei Pellegrini. Christoph Kuhn it is said be the first victim of the Papessa. Stampa is said to have urged his replacement together with her ally Archbishop Paolo Sardi, the director of the translation section. Both of them seem to have sabotaged the successor of Kuhn. According to the Kathnet news agency, Father Herman Geissler of Opus Dei had been chosen, but there was strong opposition from Stampa and Sardi. The German Bishop's Conference will also have an input. Opus Dei is anything but a home of liberal thinking and in German Catholicism it is rather favoured by the Mixa-Meisner-Mueller group of conservative bishops. But the informal power of a German woman is something which causes horror in the Vatican, because Ingrid Stampa had a predecessor whose shadow still haunts the corridors of the Apostolic Palace. Josefine Lehnert, alias Pasqualina, was the confidante of Pope Pius XII, his counsellor and life-long companion in the noblest sense. The wildest stories circulated about the power and the intrigues around her. Pius is aid to have had unlimited confidence in the intelligence and female intuition of Pasqualina. He entrusted her with phone calls and sometimes also sent her as his representative to appointments. The conflicts between Lehnert and the French Cardinal Tisserant were legendary in the Curia. She once showed him the door, and when he began to protest loudly she called the Swiss Guard. Another time his audience with the Pope was cancelled because Gary Cooper was in Rome and Sister Pasqualina, with her female intuition, knew which of the two was the more important. In the last months of Pius XII's life she alone decided who was to be admitted to see the Pope. A last quarrel with Cardinal Tisserant happened a few hours after Pius died when Pasqualina began to burn his last notes as he had instructed. Lehnert was told that she was to clear her room as quickly as possible by a simple priest. The most powerful woman in the history of the Vatican left the Apostolic Palace with two suitcases in her hand. She had to find a taxi alone. Nobody helped her to carry her luggage. It is the shadow of this other German woman which makes Ingrid Stampa's life in the Vatican difficult. Thanks for the translation, Benodette. I have taken the liberty of making a small correction (noted in green italics), mainly because the version given made a comment on the physical person of Ms. Stampa, which was not included in the original Spiegel piece. Rcesq
Last Edited By: rcesq 06/07/08 17:39:18.
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mag6nideum |
#789 | |||
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Posts: 1446 06/09/08 02:04:54 |
I didn't quite know that Spiegel was such a gossip rag. The sly innuendo/comparisons with Madame Pompadour and even with the Lehnert lady are
plain silly IMO.
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NewPerspective |
Miss Stampa | #790 | ||
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Posts: 7 06/09/08 09:52:34 |
This sounds like un-vetted gossip to me. If it's true, she's just feathering her nest. But, if she's as unlikeable as this snippet portrays her,
she won't have a permanent job in the Secretariat for very long. I don't think the Pope likes trouble-makers, even if they once worked for him.
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NewPerspective |
#791 | |||
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Posts: 8 06/09/08 10:20:05 |
I also wonder why all these "devoted" associates of the Pope waste his most precious commodity: TIME by using their time for petty jealousies and
infighting. I know it's human nature, but they have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity here and they are throwing it away.
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Benodette |
The Vatican Pompadour | #792 | ||
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Member
Posts: 5513 06/09/08 11:24:41 |
One wonders how this piece found its way into Spiegel. The journalist was obviously contacted by someone with a dislike of Dr Stampa and an interest in fanning
gossip and speculation about her relationship with the Pope. Could it possibly be that she is not to "blame" for this man's transfer at all? If
she were capable of effecting transfers by influencing the Pope isn't there someone else she would prefer to have transferred first? It is no secret that
those who worked closely with Cardinal Ratzinger for many years before his election have become objects of envy for others now that he is Pope. It is, I
suppose inevitable. People manoeuvre to be close the centre of power and ambition is as common in the Vatican as it is in any other organisation. The trouble
is we expect clergy to behave rather better than the rest of the beasts in the jungle. That is probably too much to ask.
It is interesting that an earlier discussion on this thread about the C&L housekeepers aroused much comment in their favour. This article, which attacks the reputation of both Dr Stampa, and by implication the Pope, has not prompted a single word in her defence. |
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NewPerspective |
#793 | |||
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Posts: 9 06/09/08 12:25:11 |
Dr. Kuhn has already had a career in the nunciature before he came to the Secretariat of State. I very much doubt that Miss Stampa had anything substantive to
say about his departure. The Vatican nunciature in Vienna is the place where meetings with Russian Orthodox prelates can occur. So in this sense it is still
important as a post.
That Miss Stampa and Archbishop Sardi had anything to say about Fr. Geissler, who worked with the Pope and Cardinal Bertone in the CDF, is hardly credible. She may work in the Secretariat of State, but I would really like to know if she really has such influence. And I was curious about the remarks in the article that, by implication, Miss Stampa "plays the violin at night" for the Pope or sits with him to watch television. I doubt both of these. He has a pontifical household and she is not part of it, as far as I know. |
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mag6nideum |
#794 | |||
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Posts: 1449 06/09/08 13:06:21 |
It is interesting that an earlier discussion on this thread about the C&L housekeepers aroused much comment in their favour. This article, which
attacks the reputation of both Dr Stampa, and by implication the Pope, has not prompted a single word in her defence.
Well, Benodette, I have given my opinion already (see a few posts ago). It is gossip. And it is IMO a stupid and silly piece of writing and one hopes that most readers will see through it. Even the style of writing shows ( for me) that the author was hunting for a juicy little story. "Naturally" he doesn't mention the names of the "sources" of his information regarding Dr Stampa. I find it a cowardly, rather mean piece and it reminds me of the rubbish that's dished up in the "pony" press. I have no knowledge of Ingrid Stampa except that she is/was a fine gamba player. Regarding her so called influence on the Pope: why would he lend his ears to such a female ogre as has been painted in the article? The article is ultimately unconvincing. |
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rcesq |
#795 | |||
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Posts: 1598 06/09/08 22:57:17 Moderator |
It is interesting that an earlier discussion on this thread about the C&L housekeepers aroused much comment in their favour. This article, which attacks the reputation of both Dr Stampa, and by implication the Pope, has not prompted a single word in her defence.The difference is that the comments about the Memores Domini related to something that was visible to all: their makeup and their seats at a concert. This piece from "Uups et Orbi" -- which is very much low grade gossip -- relates to something that I have no ability to make any sensible comment about, because it deals with alleged "behind the scenes" activities. Unless one were actually inside the Vatican, one would have no basis upon which to say yea or nay to what is reported in Der Spiegel. If a different version of events with attributed sources were to appear somewhere else, then perhaps it might be possible to compare credibility. |
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Unicorn |
#796 | |||
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Posts: 1335 06/09/08 23:32:20 |
This is the thing with long weekends - you miss quite a bit. I have just read this horrible article about Dr. Stampa, and Benodette, I'll say it directly: this is disgusting, plain and simply disgusting. I am outraged that anyone would write something as scurrilous as this. Don't people have any shame anymore? What is this world coming to, when someone would write something like this, to dishonor a woman who has always been the soul of discretion and loyalty to the Pope?
Agreed, on all counts, Mag6. "Cowardly" and "mean", as far as I'm concerned, is putting it very mildly indeed.
Three things.
First, has this world become so jaded, so cynical and so perverse that we can't see something for what it is: a bond of affection and friendship that is pure and unsullied and uncorrupted? Can we no longer believe that it is possible for a bond of great fondness, profound respect and abiding friendship to exist between two people of the opposite sex, a bond that has nothing to do with anything remotely prurient, and everything to do with all that is best in the capacity of the human heart to care for another person? Must we always try to find something ugly and sordid and distasteful in a bond of friendship between a man of the cloth and a woman of great intellect and faith? Are we always going to have to deal with the ludicrous "Jesus and Mary Magdalene" mindset, and God in heaven, in the matter of Joseph Ratzinger and the very dignified lady who both he and his brother clearly consider as a "sister" and a very dear friend?
Second, I agree that this article could not have been written without the instigation of someone who is clearly very, very resentful of the presence of Dr. Stampa and her role in the life of both the Holy Father and his brother, Msgr. Ratzinger. Because I work in a large and complex organization and have seen the kind of organizational politics that appears to be plaguing the Holy See, I can say from experience that the person who instigated this ridiculous piece of filth is a person who most probably resents Dr. Stampa for either of these two reasons: 1) she may be the kind of person who will not "play politics", and who will not let herself be drawn into the kind of influence-peddling and favor-currying that is part and parcel of such politics; or 2) she wields power blatantly and indiscriminately. Judging from everything we've read about Dr. Stampa, the second reason doesn't fit. So it must be the first. And that tells us something about the people who instigated this piece of rubbish.
Moreover, if Dr. Stampa were as scheming as this article claims she is, wouldn't there have been word of such an attitude when Il Papa was still Cardinal Ratzinger and head of the most powerful Congregation in the Vatican? And as Mag6 has observed, would the gracious and perceptive Joseph Ratzinger even lend his ear to such a person, if Dr. Stampa were as odious as this outrageous article makes her out to be? Nothing was ever said in the days when Cardinal Ratzinger was at the CDF, and heaven knows that the press threw every kind of slur at him; surely they wouldn't have hesitated to slur someone as supposedly close to him as Dr. Stampa - which makes me wonder why, all of a sudden, we have this miserable excuse for a journalistic item making such disgusting insinuations.
Third, I wonder if the person(s) responsible for this drivel ever thought to consider the horrible slurs they've also cast on Il Papa. Do they even understand what they're insinuating when they refer to Dr. Stampa as "Madame de Pompadour of the Vatican"? I cannot believe that they do not know just who - and what - Jeanne-Antoinette Poisson, Marquise (later Duchesse) de Pompadour, was. They can't be that ignorant! In referring to Dr. Stampa as the "Madame de Pompadour of the Vatican", have they ever stopped to think what that title insinuates about Il Papa himself? How low will these people stoop?
Unless one were actually inside the Vatican, one would have no basis upon which to say yea or nay to what is reported in Der Spiegel. If a different version of events with attributed sources were to appear somewhere else, then perhaps it might be possible to compare credibility.
I'm not claiming to be the perfect judge of character. But from what I've seen of Dr. Stampa in the photos that have appeared on this Forum, she is not the woman that this excuse for an article makes her out to be. The face is too kindly, the eyes too honest, the bearing too honorable. That being said, I cannot say that I don't agree with your thoughts, Rcesq, and I understand your reasons for them. But I'll go with my heart, and I know what my heart saw on May 23, 2007. I know it, I believe in it, and I know that what I saw is the truth.
I can never forget the moment I looked into the eyes of Joseph Ratzinger - those eyes are the eyes of a person whose soul is quite simply
the soul of a man who is pure of heart. No one can radiate an aura of such profound dignity, nobility and holiness unless he himself has
dedicated every moment of his entire life to the God he loves more than anyone and anything in this world, and to Whom he made vows that are quite clearly the
foundation of his life. No one can look so directly into the eyes of another with such honesty, insight and discernment unless he
himself is a person of the utmost spiritual, emotional and intellectual integrity, and unless he himself has so honorable and uncorrupted a soul. I will never
forget the gaze of the Holy Father, a gaze so direct and so intense that I felt I had to look away in humility, as any person would blink in the blazing light
of the sun - I felt as if I must confess all my sins, and confess them gladly, because I had no right to stand in the presence of such a beatific soul while
there were still so many blemishes on my own soul.
I'm beginning to think Il Papa's greatest enemies are not "out there", beyond the walls of Vatican City. No, his greatest enemies are closer to him than anyone might expect. They walk the halls of the Apostolic Palace, disguised behind benign smiles and supposedly loyal deference. But behind the smiles and the deference is the resentment for the handful of people who are genuinely loyal to Joseph Ratzinger, and who truly have his best interests at heart, a resentment that drives them to destroy an honorable lady's reputation, and in the process, sully the very man whose goodness, gentleness and generosity has, thus far, inspired him to be patient, compassionate and loving to everyone around him.
If you'll all excuse me, I think I'll get myself a Coke - and wash the exceptionally bad taste of this execrable article ("Uups et Orbi" - I rather like that, Rcesq) out of my mouth. Maybe tomorrow, I'll be able to think of it as exceedingly bad press fit only to be laughed at in derision - right now, I'm just too disgusted and nauseated. Proud to be Papist! "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI "He knocks at the door, he is close to us and thus true joy is close, which is stronger than all the sorrows in the world, and in our life." - Benedict XVI |
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rcesq |
Appearances can be deceiving | #797 | ||
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Posts: 1602 06/10/08 00:38:29 Moderator |
Unicorn:
I have no doubt that Pope Benedict is as you describe -- a model of probity, modesty and virtue. Very likely a candidate for sainthood when he gets called to meet the Lord. However, extremely good and saintly men can also have terrible judgment in whom they choose to have around them or whom they profess to admire. Just look at Pope John Paul II's attachment to and public expressions of love for Fr. Marcial Maciel. I'm not saying that something similar is the case with Pope Benedict and Ms. Stampa; however, I'm not putting it in the realm of the utterly impossible that Joseph Ratzinger may have some people around him who are not what they seem. Just bear in mind that some of the slimiest priests in the U.S. were also the most charming and had legions of devoted followers. One of the most disgusting ones in my diocese had parishioners rallying to his side, even after he was convicted of child molestation. An extremely alarming aspect of this whole sorry episode is seeing testimonials written about these criminals by their fellow priests, who, one would have thought, should have known better. For a rather sickening example of what I'm talking about read this letter from then-Father (now Bishop) Niederauer in support of Father Chris Andersen and this letter from then-Father (now Bishop)Soto. They give you a good flavor of the operative mindset. This is the story about the first Andersen trial. Here's more about this man: Andrew Christian AndersenOrange Diocese Gives Details on Sex Abuse May 18 2005 So you can perhaps understand why, without knowing much more about a person's character, I'm not so eager to rush to the defense of someone who happens to be associated with bishops who like and admire and support them. Both Bishop Niederauer and Bishop Soto were recently "promoted" by Pope Benedict, by the way, by being transferred to larger, more influential dioceses.
Last Edited By: rcesq 06/10/08 00:41:40.
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NewPerspective |
#798 | |||
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Posts: 10 06/10/08 05:27:07 |
Remember when people evaluated the powerful people in the Soviet Union by looking at pictures of the May Day parade? Well, the last two concerts in the Paul
VI Audience Hall show the Holy Father with his pontifical family (the Memores Domini sisters and Msgr. Gaenswein). But nowhere to be seen (at least in the
photographs) in Miss Stampa. I wonder if she is that close to the Pope why she is not seated near him and especially at a concert (since she is a former
musician, it would stand to reason that she would be invited to a concert, I would think)?
There was one article on Cardinal Ratzinger, written by Jozef Niewiedomski in April, 2005, which says the following: "A friend, who holds a high office in the Vatican, told me, Ratzinger long would like to retire, if the Pope let him go. Particularly after the death of his sister, who kept house for him, he feels lonely and not too comfortable in Rome." This would seems to fly in the face of Miss Stampa's supposed role as "another sister" to him or fulfilling the role of companion or whatever.
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Benodette |
Papal Friendships | #799 | ||
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Posts: 5515 06/10/08 10:01:10 |
It is a mystery to me why anyone would want to try and persuade themselves that Ingrid Stampa is not a valued friend of Joseph Ratzinger. Why would anyone want
to deny him that kind of entirely proper warmth and companionship with an intelligent person who speaks his own language and who shares his interests? Surely
this is something to be grateful for. He has a difficult job, he is 81 years old, he is exiled from his homeland and separated from his family. He needs all
the support he can get.
I see no reason why Dr Stampa should not sometimes play the violin for the Pope in the evening or watch television with him. There is nothing scandalous in that, although it may irritate some people. She is a friend and companion of more than fifteen years standing, not a just a member of staff who cooks his meals, launders his clothes and answers his official correspondence. The household are employed staff, there to do a job, and not his "family." People should be glad that he has such companions as Ingrid Stampa - people who do not rely on him for preferment, but whose attachment to him predates his elevation to the papacy. Those are the friends who really count for people in positions of power. There are enough reliable published sources to collaborate the fact of Dr Stampa's long standing place in the Pope's life. After his election it was she who met his brother at the airport and looked after him in Rome. There are even photographs taken on numerous occasions of her with Monsignor Ratzinger. The Pope's brother has himself referred to her reading to him at Castel Gandolfo and in the Vatican. It was Ingrid Stampa who first went with the Pope to his apartment in the Apostolic Palace. There are even film clips of that event. Agnes Heindl spoke of the dinner that Ingrid Stampa prepared for her and Monsignor Ratzinger in the Pope's apartment and said what a blessing she was to the Holy Father. Even the tradesmen in the Borgo Pio refer to her doing errands for the Pope over many years. She lived in Cardinal Ratzinger's apartment as the manager of a household would - and it was a very large apartment - and she was working there when she saw the white smoke. As well as managing Ratzinger's household she translated some of the works of Pope John Paul II. Peter Seewald - who published two highly regarded interviews with Cardinal Ratzinger - dedicated a few pages of his book - The German Pope - to her. It is true that dubbing her the First Lady of the Vatican was not helpful. It just fanned the flames of envy, the same flames which gave rise to this article. Why would Alexander Smoltczyk stick his neck out and publish a piece like this without an inside "tip-off". What would he possibly have to gain by making it up? Someone obviously "placed" this story with a particular "spin"; and someone close to the household and the Apostolic Palace. I don't believe Dr Stampa is to blame for movements in the Vatican staff, but someone wants to make it appear that she is. That person is not the journalist. Why doesn't she appear at concerts? Well she might, but not in an obvious seat. She is discreet and has nothing to prove. The official "household" makes up the Pope's official retinue. He is not singling them out for favours when they accompany him to functions. The Pope's friends, just like the friends of any public figure, are another matter. The closer they are the lower they lie. That is just common sense and good manners. |
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