 |
|
|
Welcome to The Pope Benedict XVI Forum
The Pope Benedict XVI Fan Club invites your participation in our open, yet civil and (hopefully) respectful discussion of topics by and about Pope Benedict XVI and general issues in Catholic faith & theology. Members, please acquaint yourself with our FORUM RULES -- failure to abide by the rules will result in warnings from the moderator and possible expulsion by the management. |
| Author | Comment | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
 Stefan60 |
#141 | |||
|
Member
Posts: 14 05/02/08 22:41:24 |
Thanks for the comment. In her profile shes says she is interested in the history of WWII.....
I avoided the name of the guy in order not to attract the wrong people to this forum. |
|||
|
|
||||
|
Stefan60 |
Nazi pic | #142 | ||
|
Member
Posts: 15 05/04/08 06:21:53 |
I would like to see a reaction here by the Webmaster about this issue!
Thanks |
|||
|
|
||||
|
LOUISE BROWN |
Cardinal Ratzinger's Kind Response To Ilse Hess | #143 | ||
|
Member
Posts: 1509 05/24/08 12:30:53 |
However, to those who may be wondering why anyone who had contributed a fair bit to this particular forum should have any interest whatsoever in the
subject of the person whose face was on my avatar I would like to say that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger had compassion and sympathy for this person and his sad
case and the campaign for Hess's release from captivity from Spandau Prison in Berlin ; and in response to a letter written and sent on the 2nd February
1979 from the wife of Rudolf Hess to the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger he very kindly responded to her plight to have her husband freed with the following
words:
|
|||
|
|
||||
|
rcesq |
Open Letter to Louise Brown | #144 | ||
|
Member
Posts: 1565 05/25/08 01:55:59 Moderator |
Louise Brown: I am going to speak very bluntly.Stefan60 posted his objection to your Rudolf Hess avatar while I was away. When I saw the exchange upon my return, I decided to do nothing to draw attention to the issue. But then I happened to see that not only your avatar but Mary Benedict's was changed also, and I wondered if you two had done that yourselves or if perhaps a hacker had maliciously changed your avatar to a notorious Nazi and Mary Benedict's to Napoleon Bonaparte. So I alerted Christopher Blosser, the owner of this site. He took the steps you describe. For reasons that I am going to set forth below, I am going to ask him to ban you from the forum.You express interest in an unrepentant convicted Nazi war criminal like Rudolf Hess, whose slavish devotion to Hitler was a hallmark of his character, and you profess love for Joseph Ratzinger, whose loathing of Hitler and abhorrence of the demonic criminality of the Nazis, was a touchstone of his younger years. This juxtaposition is sickening.After seeing your post, I Googled Rudolf Hess and came across the following: http://profile.xanga.com/ALBERTSPEERFACTFILE
· Religion: Christian · Heroes: Joseph Ratzinger/Rudolf Hess/ Col Eugene K Bird (because of the sort of man he was and the way he was Rudolf Hess's advocate) and some others - depending on the circumstances. · Interests: Music, reading, history, third reich, videos/dvd's and documentaries · Expertise: Personal insights into famous (and infamous) people of all walks of life. · Occupation: Finance/Data Entry · Industry: Medical/Scientific/Tech It doesn't take much to conclude that the "Louise" of the ALBERTSPEERFACTFILE is the same "Louise" as the one who maintains this: http://www.xanga.com/FANOFB16. Nor does it take much to conclude that both these Louises are the same as you, Louise Brown.·
Louise Brown, your "welcome" note on the Albert Speer webpage is profoundly disturbing. Don't you realize that those whom you so breezily identify as "Third Reichers" are people with whom no one who has a correct understanding of Pope Benedict XVI would want to associate in any way, shape or form, except maybe to pray for the redemption of their souls? And that Rudolf Hess was, most charitably considered, satanically demented? I assume you have seen this before: The Oath to Adolf Hitler Speech by Rudolf Hess on 25 February 1934
On this the anniversary of the proclamation of the party's program, you will together swear an oath of loyalty and obedience to Adolf Hitler. You will display to the world what has long been obvious to you, and what you have expressed in past years, often unconsciously. You are swearing your oath on a holiday that Germany celebrates for the first time: Heroes' Memorial Day. We lower our flags in remembrance of those who lived as heroes, and who died as heroes. We lower the flags before the giants of our past, before those who fought for Germany, before the millions who fought in the World War, before those who died preparing the way for the new Reich. I name Horst Wessel because he has become a symbol for us, and remember through him all those "shot by the Red Front and Reaction." * * * The battle-ready manly heroes and the quiet sacrifices of mothers and women are holy examples of loyalty for us Germans. The flags that we now raise once more are the symbols of this loyalty, which for Nordic mankind is closely bound to heroism! Loyalty not only in deed, but in character is demanded of you. Loyalty of character often demands no less heroic virtue than does loyalty in deed. Loyalty in character is unbreakable loyalty, a loyalty that knows no ifs or buts, that knows no weakening, Loyalty in character means absolute obedience that does not question the results of the order nor its reasons, but rather obeys for the sake of obedience itself. Such obedience is an expression of heroic character when following the order leads to personal disadvantage or seems even to contradict one's personal convictions. Adolf Hitler's strength as a leader is that he almost always works through the power of his persuasion; rarely does he command. He must know, however, that when he commands, or allows a command to be given, that it will be obeyed absolutely, down to the last block warden. The power and effectiveness of a good organization is even greater when discipline prevails. The greater its obedience even in small things, the more clearly it marches to the right or the left depending on the command of the leader, the more exactly the command to march in short or long steps is followed, the more surely the Führer can take the steps necessary to realize the National Socialist program. All we National Socialists work for the realization of this program, just as we once worked to gain control of the state. We fought for the souls of the farmers, for the souls of the workers, for the souls of the middle class, for the souls of men, for the souls of women, for the souls of the old, for the souls of the young - we the members of the main organization of the NSDAP as well as the men of the Labor Service, the leaders of the affiliated organizations of the party such as the National Socialist women. With the same will young men and women strive toward the same goal, to become those who will replace us as the masters of Germany's fate. Hitler Youths, you have given the same absolute loyalty to the Führer that Germany's young volunteers gave twenty years ago at Langemarck, which demanded their heroic deaths for our people and the Reich. You have made the youth of Langemarck your model. You have the good fortune to live in a Reich that the best warriors of 1914 could only dream of - a Reich that for all eternity will remain united if you do your duty. For you, doing your duty means: Obey the Führer's orders without question! You will be the best living memorial to the dead comrades of the first years of the war when you maintain discipline in your ranks. * * * I know how you were persecuted, maligned, hated and mocked because of your faith in the Führer. I know how many of your comrades sacrificed their young lives! I know it well! But I also know that all the dangers and sorrows that a Hitler Youth suffered, even in the most Communist neighborhood in the years before the seizure of power, are not comparable to the dangers and sorrows that a front soldier experienced in a single day! Never forget that when your leader, who endured the battleground for us, demands self-discipline of you. I say to the political leaders what I said to your comrades in Gau Thuringia as they were sworn in last year: Be true to Hitler's spirit! Ask in all that you do: What would the Führer do. If you act accordingly, you will not go wrong! Being true to Hitler's spirit means knowing that a leader has not only rights, but above all duties. Being true to Hitler's spirit means always being a model. "To be a leader is to be an example," just as Hitler and his work are an example for you. Being true to Hitler's spirit means being modest and unassuming. Being true to Hitler's spirit means remaining a thorough National Socialist in good times and bad. Being a thorough National Socialist means to think ever and only on the whole National Socialist German people. It means that no matter what, always to be a servant of the total National Socialism of Adolf Hitler, to be a fully conscious, heartfelt follower of the Führer above all else. Be ever a servant of the whole, within the movement as well, and never forget that only the whole movement, not a part of it, can guarantee victory and the conquest of the future. Be ever aware that, wherever you are, you owe thanks to the Führer, for his leadership enabled every victory. Wherever you are, be it high or low, work for his movement, and therefore for Germany. Remember what Adolf Hitler says: it makes no difference if one is a street cleaner or a professor, as long as he works for the whole and does his duty. The reward for your labors is the feeling of having done one's duty for the movement, for Adolf Hitler, for Germany. All of you, whether political leader, SA, SS or Hitler Youth share a common pride: Being a member of Adolf Hitler's NSDAP! * * * Political leaders! Leaders of the Labor Service, the forces of labor! Women's leaders, HJ leaders! Leaders of the BDM! You will now take an oath to Adolf Hitler! Your oath is not a mere formality; you do not swear this oath to someone unknown to you. You do not swear in hope, but with certainty. Fate has made it easy for you to take this oath without condition or reservation. Never in history has a people taken an oath to a leader with such absolute confidence as the German people have in Adolf Hitler. You have the enormous joy of taking an oath to a man who is the embodiment of a leader. You take an oath to the fighter who demonstrated his leadership over a decade, who always acts correctly and who always chose the right way, even when at times the larger part of his movement failed to understand why. You take an oath to a man whom you know follows the laws of providence, which he obeys independently of the influence of earthly powers, who leads the German people rightly, and who will guide Germany's fate. Through your oath you bind yourselves to a man who - that is our faith - was sent to us by higher powers. Do not seek Adolf Hitler with your mind. You will find him through the strength of your hearts! Adolf Hitler is Germany and Germany is Adolf Hitler. He who takes an oath to Hitler takes an oath to Germany! Swear to great Germany, to whose sons and daughters throughout the world I send our best wishes. [Throughout Germany people take the oath.] This has been the greatest common taking of an oath in history! We greet the Führer! Having read this kind of Hess rant,
how can you possibly justify using Hess's face as an avatar anywhere? In this oath-speech Hess was essentially
substituting Adolf Hitler for Jesus!
In your post you explain your interest in Hess by referring to Cardinal Ratzinger's alleged "compassion and sympathy for this person," and you cite to a letter addressed to Mrs. Hess, which appears in a book written by their son, Wolf Hess. Don't you understand that there is no similarity at all between what might have been the Cardinal's expressed willingness to assist in a humanitarian petition for clemency in dealing with Hess as a sick octogenarian imprisoned alone for decades, and being a supporter of Hess, who was an avowed advocate of the unremitting evils of the Third Reich? I say "what might have been the Cardinal's expressed willingness to assist in a humanitarian petition for clemency" because the source you cite, Rudolf Hess's son, Wolf Ruediger Hess, was also a Nazi true believer, a Holocaust denier and a man who advanced elaborate conspiracy theories to proclaim his father's innocence and good intentions. Is there any other corroboration for the 1979 letter Wolf Hess says was sent by Cardinal Ratzinger to Ilse Hess? I haven't been able to find any. Unlike Albert Speer, Rudolf Hess never acknowledged the demonic nature of the Third Reich, and he died a suicide. So can't you see that there is no reason now, years after Hess's death, to be compassionate or sympathetic towards him except, as I noted before, to pray for the salvation of his soul? Because your thinking is, to my mind, completely warped, and because you have dragged the revolting degeneracy of Nazism into this forum, I believe that continuing to allow you to participate in this forum is harmful. Christopher Blosser may disagree with me. Other forum participants may likewise disagree. But I want the forum to know that, in my opinion, Nazi-sympathizers should not be welcomed here.
Last Edited By: rcesq 05/25/08 02:11:56.
Edited 1 time.
|
|||
|
|
||||
|
LOUISE BROWN |
Re: Cardinal Ratzinger's Kind Response To Ilse Hess | #145 | ||
|
Member
Posts: 1510 05/25/08 05:20:29 |
 After reading your highly biased 'diatribe'
against myself and my interests I must say that reading Wolf Hess's book 'My Father Rudolf Hess' and all the influential people whom Wolf and his
mother Ilse dealt with during his father's incarceration; it warmed my heart to know of these people's compassion and mercy towards a person who in no
way deserved the continuing punishment of imprisonment that was dished out to him at Nuremberg. Among them was also Julius Cardinal Dopfner who wrote on the
31st October 1972 to Wolf Rudiger Hess:
'...With great emotion I think of your father's hard lot, which in spite of all the endeavours from all over the world has still not
been surmounted.
|
|||
|
|
||||
|
blostopher |
#146 | |||
|
Member
Posts: 4 05/25/08 11:58:07 |
It is understandable how contemporaries of Hess might have been sympathetic to his plight, given his flight and alleged intention to win peace with England --
even Winston Churchill (who nobody could accuse of possessing Nazi sympathies) said of his incarceration: "Whatever may be the moral guilt of a German who
stood near to Hitler, Hess had, in my view, atoned for this by his completely devoted and frantic deed of lunatic benevolence. He came to us of his own free
will, and, though without authority, had something of the quality of an envoy."
Likewise President Nixon was also in favor of his release. And presumably it was for charity that others, even those within the Church and perhaps even Ratzinger himself as a German Cardinal, took pity and -- out of Christian charity -- advocated the release of a man who by the 1960's was said to have degenerated mentally and lost most of his memory. But they did not endorse the thought and actions of a man who devoted his life to serving Adolph Hitler; who was a devotee of the occult pagan and racist Thule society; who loyally assisted his master in the drafting the notorious Mein Kampf; who participated in the Nazi party's oppression of Jews and other "inferior races" with his support of the Nuremberg Laws; who upon standing trial proclaimed his undying devotion to Hitler until the end: I had the privilege of working for many years of my life under the greatest son my nation has brought forth in its thousand-year history. Even if I could, I would not wish to expunge this time from my life. I am happy to know that I have done my duty toward my people, my duty as a German, as a National Socialist, as a loyal follower of my Führer. I regret nothing. No matter what people may do, one day I shall stand before the judgment seat of God Eternal. I will answer to Him, and I know that He will absolve me. You can find out more about him here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Hess.html will provide some further details on the man known as Rudolph Hess. Frankly, I don't see how anybody would devote a blog and photo album to honoring such a man, or posting "rather nice" and "lovely" photos of the "handsome" Fuhrer. Sorry, but such an individual has no place on this forum -- and should probably seek counseling regarding their unhealthy preoccupation with the Third Reich! Consider yourself banned.
Last Edited By: blostopher 05/25/08 16:49:52.
Edited 1 time.
|
|||
|
|
||||
|
mag6nideum |
#147 | |||
|
Member
Posts: 1432 05/25/08 14:38:21 |
To Louise Brown:
I presume you do know, as a Third Reich student, about the attitude of the Nazi party not only with regard to the Jews and their religion, but also re: the Christian religion. Even the independant Christian churches had to be controlled (that's putting it mildly). If you are not fully informed about this, please read the following excerpt from the Rudolf Hess site to which Blostopher gave the link. Seeing that you call yourself a Christian, will you then please consider REMOVING Joseph Ratzinger's name, placed NEXT to that of Rudolf Hess on your "heroes" list in your Albert Speer blog? You are doing Joseph Ratzinger a great disservice, to say the least. "Hess also sought to destroy the influence of the independent churches among the German people, in order to wipe out every opposition to the aims of the conspirators. Thus, Hess's Chief of Staff, Bormann, issued numerous orders and communications from Hess's office against the independent churches. Among these were the Secret Order of 27 July 1938 making clergymen ineligible for party offices (113-PS); the Party Directive of 14 July 1939 making the clergy and theology students ineligible for Party membership (840-PS); the letter of 22 February 1940 discussing ways and means of eliminating religious instruction from the schools (098-PS); the report of 25 April on the progressive substitution of National Socialist mottoes in place of morning prayers in the schools (070-PS); the letter to Rosenberg of 17 January 1940 concerning the undesirability of religious literature for members of the Wehrmacht (101-PS); the instructions of 8 March 1940 against the further issuance of newsprint to confessional newspapers (089-PS); and the letter to the Minister of the Interior, in May 1938, agreeing to the invalidation of the Concordat between Austria and the Holy See (675-PS; 838-PS and 107-PS)." |
|||
|
|
||||
|
Unicorn |
#148 | |||
|
Member
Posts: 1318 05/26/08 21:20:12 |
I am editing this post as an expression of respect for blostopher's post below. However, with his indulgence and understanding, I shall
retain this declaration, in support of Rcesq's statement "I want the forum to know that, in my opinion, Nazi-sympathizers should not
be welcomed here":
There can never be a place on a Forum named after the Vicar of Christ, for anyone who supports an ideology that has wrought immeasurable cruelty and suffering on countless millions, has advocated the destruction of the Jewish people, and had sought to eradicate the Christian faith. ********************* On a side note, thanks very much for the link to the book review, blostopher. I shall definitely check it out. Proud to be Papist! "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI "He knocks at the door, he is close to us and thus true joy is close, which is stronger than all the sorrows in the world, and in our life." - Benedict XVI
Last Edited By: Unicorn 05/27/08 09:19:56.
Edited 3 times.
|
|||
|
|
||||
|
blostopher |
#149 | |||
|
Member
Posts: 5 05/27/08 07:52:43 |
I'm sure I can speak for all here that it sickens me immensely that somebody would actually devote a blog to honoring the very men who are responsible for
the atrocities committed against not only the Jewish people but who in their devotion to a pagan ethic were responsible for the oppression of the Catholic
Church and Christians (Catholic and Protestant). (Side note: on the matter of the Third Reich's persecution of the Catholic Church, see a recent book
review: Father Jean Bernard's "Priestblock 25487: A Memoir of
Dachau"
That said, given that the moderators and myself have resolved the matter in the context of this forum I think we should move on and devote our discussion to other matters (such as the original topic of this thread).
Last Edited By: blostopher 05/27/08 07:55:48.
Edited 1 time.
|
|||
|
|
||||
|
mag6nideum |
NCR on the question of liturgical music and the present Pope | #150 | ||
|
Member
Posts: 1488 08/21/08 04:14:28 |
Published:
August 20, 2008
Much has been made of Pope John Paul II's role in inspiring the music of the new evangelization. But what of the man who has led the Catholic church since 2005? According to Fr. J. Michael Joncas, Pope Benedict XVI's thoughts on liturgical music "have never been presented in a systematic fashion." But some of his opinions can be gleaned from books like The Spirit of the Liturgy, which compiles his writings on the subject. They reveal an abiding respect for traditional sacred music, and greater uncertainty about more modern styles. When Benedict XVI came to Washington and New York to celebrate his first U.S. Masses in April, the visit triggered more contentious debate about music in the liturgy. Traditionalists in particular were confident that this pope would share their tastes, if not their convictions. The music chosen for the Mass programs in the two cities formed a contrast. In New York, the Masses at St. Patrick's Cathedral and Yankee Stadium favored what Joncas characterized as a "more substantial use of chant … and choral singing without congregational vocal participation." At the earlier liturgy at Nationals Park in Washington, however, the emphasis was on Catholic multiculturalism; planners incorporated Spanish-language pieces, jazzy African-American-style arrangements, and Marty Haugen's post-Vatican II "Mass of Creation" for the eucharistic acclamations. The D.C. program was roundly criticized by liturgical traditionalists such as Stanford's Dr. William Mahrt, who found it too anthropocentric. "The music seems to have been chosen to represent the diversity of the congregation, but I would say that the music for the liturgy should unite the congregation, and it should represent the purposes of the liturgy: the glory of God and the sanctification of the faithful." Mahrt pointed to the applause that erupted after Placido Domingo's rendition of "Panis Angelicus" at the end of Communion - evidence, he believes, that the music failed to create the proper tenor for a papal Mass. Joncas defended the Mass programs, saying they conformed to the demands of both the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and the document "Sing to
the Lord" from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. "I think the two [programs] represent not so much differing conceptions of the role of music
in Catholic worship as differing prudential judgments about what would be 'hospitable,' " Joncas said...... |
|||
|
|
||||
I discovered a 'flaw' in the new
changeover from 'Ez-board' to 'Yuku' in that avatars we choose for posing on one board unfortunately turn up on others we post on and this was
the reason for the 'Hess' avatar showing up on all my posts on this forum. However, stefan60 saw fit to alert the webmaster about this and cause
controversy for myself and another member of the RFC. I notice stefan60 has not posted again. Such concern for the RFC from one who has only posted a few times
is rather surprising!
