Papal clothing and liturgical practices

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rcesq		#821	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1404 03/21/08 17:30:14 Moderator	Sorry, Benodette, I'm not going to comment further about Archbishop Marini's article. It's too much of a temptation and this is supposed to be a time of quiet contemplation and entering into the sufferings of Christ.
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Benodette	Papa Wojtyla’s Gothic Chasubles for the Easter Vigil and Easter Sunday	#822	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 5068 03/23/08 08:32:42	For the Easter Vigil the Pope looked splendid in a cream and gold silk chasuble and mitre which were often worn by Papa Wojtyla. The Pope wore this same set on January 1st. © Benodette The six flanking candles on the altar were arranged with sufficient space in the middle but the seventh candle behind the cross now seems to be a fixture, so only the celebrants see the crucifix. © Benodette The font had been placed on the ground in front of the altar rather than on the platform to the Pope's right as in previous years. That arrangement seemed to work quite well. The chair was the more modest red and gold one which doesn't swamp the Pope. In this service it looked fine. On Good Friday I thought it was rather too luxurious. © Benodette Today it not only rained for the Easter Sunday Mass but there was a full-blown thunderstorm with flashes, bangs and crashes which sometimes drowned out the Pope's voice. At first they were dithering about whether or not to seat him on the gilded throne against the wall of the basilica. Eventually they hauled out the usual the cream and gold chair and placed that under the canopy which also has space heaters. There was no procession. © Benodette The Pope walked quickly to his chair and conducted the service from there, where he was relatively warm and dry. He also delivered the Urbi et Orbi from there, standing up rather than sitting down, as he did at Christmas, when all that could be seen from below was his jewelled mitre. He was wearing the Celtic chasuble and mitre again and he looked quite cheerful in spite of the vile weather. © Benodette The cardinals and bishops decided not to join us in getting soaked and bailed out at the last minute. That meant we could move forward and far closer to the Pope than is usual when the senior clergy occupy the front rows. So, even though it poured throughout the service, I was able to take some reasonable pictures thanks to friends who sheltered me with their umbrellas. Papa Wojtyla's Coat of Arms is visible on the mitre here but really it us just a feel-good picture showing how lovely the Pope is with small children and how much they like him too. © Benodette
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letmel	Papal clothing and liturgical practices	#823	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 696 03/23/08 10:35:17	Rcesq wrote : "Sorry, Benodette, I'm not going to comment further about ............... article. It's too much of a temptation and this is supposed to be a time of quiet contemplation and entering into the sufferings of Christ." --------------------------------------------------------------- Indeed, but Christ also told us to love our brothers as we love ourselves, and not to """" others... Too much of a temptation ? Or...just plainly you don't know. Sorry, could not help it. In the spirit of the Sacred Triduum I've be silent , reading your posts Rcesq, or RCESQ as Galanterie writes lately. But... shocked by them and feeling the anguish about what it looks to me, as a persistent disrespect for certain members of the Church, simply because you don't agree with their ideas or ways. Now in the spirit of the Risen Christ, I'm just asking you to be more loving and respectful in your comments and, as I've mentioned before to stop beeing - in my opinion- sort of an imitator of "a" particular blog. Quote: "On the question of the Staff - I think it would have been a good thing if Pope Benedict had used a different one from the very beginning of his papacy if there was an intention to change. We were all prepared for change then and we could have absorbed it more easily. Now it appears as if the Pope has spent over two years treading on eggshells around the memory of Papa Wojtyla while gradually accomplishing a smooth transition to a more formal papacy. I am not saying this is the case, just that this is the impression these changes are creating. I really do think a word of explanation would be a wise move and very much appreciated." ----------------------------------------- Benodette, I agree in everything you wrote 100%, thank you. By the way Rcesq, I am not a Novus Ordo " aficionados" either and I love and respect the Holy Father very much . I will also mention that "Liturgy and Beauty" or in Italian " Liturgia e Belleza - Nobilis Pulchritudo" is a book of 139 pages . ISBN 88-209-7756-7 , Libreria Editrice Vaticana. There is another book by the same author about Sacrosanctum Concilium is called " Serving the people of God - Remembering Sacrosanctum Concilium" by Novalis Publishing Inc. Published in Italian under the title " Il quarantesimo della Sacrosanctum Concilium" Mag : I've seen the ombrellino in pictures as well . I knew about it and I actually like it . Thanks Rcesq for the information.
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letmel	Papa Wojtyla’s Gothic Chasubles for the Easter Vigil and Easter Sunday	#824	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 697 03/23/08 13:18:38	Beautiful pictures Benodette, Thank you . I love the Chasubles and mitres, especially on Easter Vigil. Your picture of the altar is gorgeous. I like this arrangement of the six flanking candles on the altar better than before but not the one behind the crucifix . I'd still like to have the crucifix facing the people and the font where it was before. How brave of you to take the today's pictures !
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Unicorn	A very rainy Easter Sunday in La Bella Roma	#825	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1224 03/24/08 00:14:14	Benodette, I shall try to get a dial-up connection tonight, so I can see your photos - they are always a very special treat for us on the RFC! I was able to see most of the Lenten celebrations, except for the Via Crucis, which was telecast in Manila at 4:00 in the morning of Holy Saturday! I had to miss that one, for fear of coming down with low blood pressure, since I'd already been up until 2:00 AM for the telecast of the Mass of the Lord's Supper at the Lateran Basilica. It is always very touching to see the Easter Vigil baptisms - this year's liturgical celebration is especially moving, given that one of the newly-baptized Catholics was a Muslim. As Rcesq said on another thread, let us pray for Magdi Allam - certain quarters in the Muslim world do not look kindly upon converts to Christianity, and Signor Allam has taken a step that truly bespeaks of great courage and a profound love of Christ. The weather in Rome yesterday morning was completely horrible, and reminds me of my experience with a Roman rainstorm. I was almost caught in a downpour during my last day in Rome; fortunately, I was able to run to the doorstep of a building not far from the bus stop along the Via Nomentana before the heavens opened. Still, whenever the wind blew in my direction, my teeth would chatter like crazy, and I wondered if my toes would finally turn blue with the cold - and this was at the end of May! I can just imagine how cold it must have been at the Piazza. Benodette, I heartily agree with Letmel, you are very brave to have taken those photos, and we are very, very grateful indeed. I recall that you were in that other horrible downpour during the canonizations last June 3^rd, and that you caught a cold afterwards. March is definitely much colder than June, and I hope that you will not be so unlucky again as to come down with a bad cold, cara amica. I could see one bandmember - poor fellows, they must have been soaked to the skin, they didn't have anything by way of raingear! - discreetly hopping up and down to keep warm, and even over the TV speakers, I could hear the crack of thunder and the drumming of the rain. I hope the lightning was not directly overhead? If it was, that would have been enormously risky for the Swiss Guards, the band and other uniformed personnel in the Piazza - those halberds, metal belt buckles and buttons might turn them into lightning rods! The weather doesn't seem to have improved much, judging from this photo courtesy of the Vatican City State webcam: Those look like very angry thunderclouds hovering over Michelangelo's dome! I really hope that we'll see the bright blue skies again soon, and that the Roman sunshine will once again light up Il Papa's unforgettable eyes. I could not help but notice how he looked rather tired during the Good Friday ceremonies, and I hope that he will be able to get some much-needed rest after the Lenten activities. It is, as always, wonderfully moving to watch the Holy Week celebrations in Rome - thanks to cable televisions, they are now becoming part of my own set of Lenten "traditions". This is Joseph Ratzinger's second Easter as Pope, and soon, he will mark the third Anniversary of his pontificate. Long may he bear the staff of the Universal Shepherd, the Ring of the Fisherman, and the Pallium of the Vicar of Christ. Proud to be Papist! "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI "He knocks at the door, he is close to us and thus true joy is close, which is stronger than all the sorrows in the world, and in our life." - Benedict XVI
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Benodette	Interview with Guido Marini	#826	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 5074 03/24/08 03:53:37	"Il Riformista" has an *interview* with Msgr Guido Marini whci has been translated for the NLM by Gregor Kollmorgen. "The very first reaction was great surprise and great fear. Then I felt a certain trepidation the night before beginning my service, and I also very much felt the separation from my diocese and my city, my sister and her family, from so many friends, from the places where I have exercised my priesthood in a special way: the [Genoese] curia, the seminary, the cathedral. At the same time, however, I felt much honoured to be called by the Holy Father to perform the service of Master of Liturgical Celebrations. The possibility I have been given to be near the Holy Father I have felt immediately to be a true grace for my priesthood." Monsignor Guido Marini, Genoese, 42 years old, thus describes to the "Riformista" his arrival, last October, at the Vatican to assume the post of Master of the Liturgical Celebrations of the Pope. An appointment which allows him to work in close contact with Benedict XVI. "That which I have perceived at the beginning of my new assignment - he tells - I have found confirmed exactly every time I have had the grace to encounter the Holy Father. These encounters have been and are always for me a cause of great joy and great emotion. Interview with Guido Marini
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rcesq	Msgr. Marini, White Mozzetta and Papal Umbrella	#827	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1406 03/24/08 19:30:01 Moderator	Benodette, thanks for posting the interview with Msgr. Marini that I read over the weekend on the other blogs. This post is in haste -- work actually has a way of interfering with other activities sometimes! My impression of Msgr. Guido Marini is that he comes across as a very sweet and modest man, who actually seems as struck by "Papa Benedetto-awe" as many participants in this forum. And may I note that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, Letmel: if you think it's inappropriate to voice criticism of the novelties introduced by Marini I, it's equally inappropriate to voice criticism of the novelties introduced by Marini II. However, although I disagree with the criticisms, I do not for an instant disagree with the right to criticize, provided it is done with proper respect and moderation. I must say that I do not believe I have indulged in the excesses of personal vilification that one sees on other forums and blogs and would like to know what I have said in particular that strikes you as wrong. On a less contentious note, apparently another item of papal clothing has emerged from the mothballs: a white mozzetta to be worn during the Easter season. Hat tip from The New Liturgical Movement: And finally, which is the proper papal umbrella? A white one like this: Photo: AFP or the yellow and white one that Benodette has in her photograph: Photo: Benodette Ombrellinos everywhere, obviously, this Easter. Glad to see that common sense prevailed and that those in charge of the ceremonies kept il Papa out of the wet. And I second Unicorn's hope that Benodette did not get soaked and will not suffer any ill consequences from taking her wonderful pictures that she shares so generously with us. By the way, it that a new canopy on the steps of St. Peter's? The one I remember has V shaped support and a red border. This one seems different: Last Edited By: rcesq 03/25/08 00:58:54. Edited 2 times.
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Unicorn	Tne White Papal Canopy	#828	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1227 03/24/08 22:35:12	Glad to see that common sense prevailed and that those in charge of the ceremonies kept il Papa out of the wet. I quite agree, Rcesq. The poor man has enough problems to deal with ... the last thing he needs is to get wet and catch a horrible cold. One can only hope that Benodette will not suffer too badly from being caught in the rain. I imagine that everyone there, despite their ombrellini and raingear, got a "good" dousing. By the way, it that a new canopy on the steps of St. Peter's? The one I remember has V shaped support and a red border. This one seems different ... I think the Vatican began to use this new, white canopy beginning in mid-2007, unless I am mistaken. I think its inaugural use was either for the May 30 General Audience, or for the Mass for the Canonization of St. Marie Eugenie of Jesus Milleret, et. al. The last time the red canopy was used, if I am correct, was for the May 23 General Audience. Since I had the great good fortune to be at that Audience, I suppose I shall always remember that red canopy with fondness. Incidentally, Cardinal Foley, who did the commentary for the Easter Mass (thank God, I must admit that I much prefer him to other people!), offered the information that this particular high-tech canopy has a kind of heating system -- the good Cardinal said that he was especially grateful for that heating system, for Il Papa's sake, given the wet and chilly weather that Easter Sunday at the Piazza. Our servers are again preventing me from seeing the photos you and Benodette have posted, Rcesq, but I can at least see the Fotografia Felici photo -- those white roses beneath the icon are absolutely glorious! Incidentally, I must apologize for the photo I posted of the stormy skies above St. Peter's. I had linked to the photo of the Vatican webcam, and it seems that the link I used is the "real-time" link, which would explain the changing photos. In any case, at least we can see what the weather is like in Rome at any given time! Proud to be Papist! "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI "He knocks at the door, he is close to us and thus true joy is close, which is stronger than all the sorrows in the world, and in our life." - Benedict XVI Last Edited By: Unicorn 03/24/08 22:53:56. Edited 1 time.
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letmel	Msgr. Marini, White Mozzetta and Papal Umbrella	#829	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 698 03/25/08 13:13:36	Rcesq: I don't think it's inappropriate to voice criticism of the " novelties " introduced by anyone as far as you do it with the fairness and "proper respect " ( you said it right) , which sadly IMHO many of your posts are lacking when refering to some members of the Church . Reading your post #1404 it did anguish me as did many others . Due to respect , lack of time and desire I am going to abstain for further comments. I'd point out however , I may not always like what I see regarding the Papal celebrations , as it happened to me before. I believe though, that when I make a comment, I talk about Papal 's vestments , altar's arrangements or I agree about some of us opinions etc.. never have I named or singled out anyone . I did not mean to make you feel uncomfortable with my latest post's request , sorry if I did.
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Unicorn	Papal sunglasses	#830	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1240 03/26/08 19:42:51	The discussion over vestments and liturgical practices has been rather passionate of late, so I though we all need a dash of light humor. Remember that great photo of Il Papa wearing sunglasses while on a walk during one of his vacations? Well, here is another photo, courtesy of www.benedikt.ru: I wish I knew who the photographer is ... Proud to be Papist! "Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved ..." - Benedict XVI "He knocks at the door, he is close to us and thus true joy is close, which is stronger than all the sorrows in the world, and in our life." - Benedict XVI Last Edited By: Unicorn 03/26/08 22:14:59. Edited 1 time.
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